openc910 VS seL4

Not noted here is that the fastest RISC-V general purpose machines you can currently buy use the THead C910 core, which is:

1) Chinese

2) actually Open Source (except the vector unit): https://github.com/T-head-Semi/openc910

The fastest off the shelf RISC-V machine currently is the Milk-V Pioneer using the SG2042 SoC which has 64 C910 OoO cores running at 2.0 GHz, with 64 MB L3 cache and up to 128 GB RAM. The core, SoC, board, and PC are all made in China.

Of course this situation changes very fast. There will be several machines using SiFive's P550 cores in several months -- most from Chinese companies, or at least using Chinese SoC (SiFive's own HiFive Premier P550 board). And then at the end of the year the Milk-V "Oasis" (and others from at least Sipeed) using SiFive's P670 cores, but again in the Chinese SG2380 SoC.

There are a several US startups who started work on RISC-V core in 2021-2022 who will have much faster (Apple M1 class or better) cores, but those won't arrive in machines you can buy until 2025 or 2026.

> I'm pretty sure that SiFive isn't allowed to sell their RISC-V core designs to any Chinese company already.

The JH7110 SoC from the Chinese firm Starfive uses SiFive's U74 core. Eswin, also Chinese uses SiFive's P550 core in their upcoming EIC7700 SoC.

> All Chinese RISC-V core designs have been proprietary designs thus far.

There is the OpenC910 [1] and OpenXiangShan [2].

[1] https://github.com/T-head-Semi/openc910

Note that the C910 CPU cores used in this chip are in fact open source:

https://github.com/T-head-Semi/openc910

(C920 is just C910 plus RVV draft 0.7.1 vector unit which pretty much no software uses anyway, sadly)

The Milk-V Pioneer uses a C910 CPU, which has been open sourced by t-head: https://github.com/T-head-Semi/openc910

More precisely, a Chinese university assembled a rack containing 48 [1] commercially available SBCs [2], each with a Chinese-designed and made SG2042 SoC with 64 C910 CPU cores. The C910 was designed in China in 2018/19 and open-sourced in October 2021, on Microsoft's github site.

https://github.com/T-head-Semi/openc910

The SG2042 is the most powerful RISC-V SoC available today.

In which direction is the technology transfer going?

[1] or possibly 24 dual-socket boards, shown at the RISC-V Summit China in August

[2] get your own here https://www.crowdsupply.com/milk-v/milk-v-pioneer

For "coming down the pipeline" they're essentially free.

Today, the c910 is an Apache 2, hardware proven out of order core on GitHub here https://github.com/T-head-Semi/openc910 a little slower than an RPi3's core.

Here is the source code* for the CPU:

https://github.com/T-head-Semi/openc910

* AFAIK they didn't opensource the pre ratification vector extension implementation they ship with the taped out chip.

The source RTL for the roughly Arm A72-equivalent cores used in this were open-sourced several years ago.

https://github.com/T-head-Semi/openc910

The same cores are used in the 64 core SG2042 workstation/server SoC.

[9] https://sel4.systems

If you're interested, the microkernel is open source: https://github.com/seL4/seL4

> People like to snob Unix but the fact is: the world runs on Unix.

The world you are aware of runs on it.

> Can we really do that much better or is it just hubris?

Yes. Have a look at seL4[1] and Barrelfish too[2], even though that's no longer active. seL4 in particular is powering a lot of highly secure computing systems. There is a surprisingly large sphere outside of Unix/POSIX.

[1] https://sel4.systems/

[2] https://barrelfish.org/

There are also RTOS-capable microkernels such as seL4[0], with few but extremely fast syscalls[1]. Note times are in cycles, not usec.

0. https://sel4.systems/

1. https://sel4.systems/About/Performance/

https://sel4.systems

Working on a number of platforms, verified on some. Multicore support is an ongoing effort afaict.

On OS built on this kernel is still subject to some assumptions (like, hardware working correctly, bootloader doing its job, etc). But mostly those assumptions are less of a problem / easier to prove than the properties of a complex software system.

As I understand it, guarantees that seL4 does provide, go well beyond anything else currently out there.

Take a look at this: https://sel4.systems/

It's probably have to be seL4 (https://sel4.systems), running on some fully OSS hardware.

There are question marks over much of available RISC-V chips due to chinese producers, so maybe OpenPower based hardware?

Plus, the entire system (motherboard, etc) would need to be manufactured using a good supply chain.

Hmmm, this has probably all been thought through in depth before by others. :)

You can use it to (mostly) validate small snippets are the same. See Alive2 for the application of Z3/formalization of programs as SMT for that [1]. As far as I'm aware there are some problems scaling up to arbitrarily sized programs due to a lack of formalization in higher level languages in addition to computational constraints. With a lot of time and effort it can be done though [2].

1. https://github.com/AliveToolkit/alive2

2. https://sel4.systems/

Formal methods. This is not in most general-purpose programming languages and probably never will be (maybe we'll see formal methods to verify unsafe code in Rust...) because it's a ton of boilerplate (you have to help the compiler type-check your code) and also extremely complicated. However, formal methods is very important for proving code secure, such as sel4 (microkernel formally verified to not have bugs or be exploitable) which has just received the ACM Software Systems Award 3 days ago.