wander VS Kha

very cool! if you're exploring wasm for graphics, take a look at Wander- lets you create and execute "renderlets" — portable modules containing graphics data and code compiled to wasm https://github.com/renderlet/wander

I used to work at Adobe on the infrastructure powering big applications like Photoshop and Acrobat. One of our worst headaches was making these really powerful codebases work on desktop, web, mobile, and the cloud without having to completely rewrite them. For example, to get Lightroom and Photoshop working on the web we took a winding path through JavaScript, Google’s PNaCl, asm.js, and finally WebAssembly, all while having to rethink our GPU architecture around these devices. We even had to get single-threaded builds working and rebuild the UI around Web Components. Today the web builds work great, but it was a decade-long journey to get there!

The graphics stack continues to be one of the biggest bottlenecks in portability. One day I realized that WebAssembly (Wasm) actually held the solution to the madness. It’s runnable anywhere, embeddable into anything, and performant enough for real-time graphics. So I quit my job and dove into the adventure of creating a portable, embeddable WASM-based graphics framework from the ground up: high-level enough for app developers to easily make whatever graphics they want, and low-level enough to take full advantage of the GPU and everything else needed for a high-performance application.

I call it Renderlet to emphasize the embeddable aspect — you can make self-contained graphics modules that do just what you want, connect them together, and make them run on anything or in anything with trivial interop.

If you think of how Unity made it easy for devs to build cross-platform games, the idea is to do the same thing for all visual applications.

Somewhere along the way I got into YC as a solo founder (!) but mostly I’ve been heads-down building this thing for the last 6 months. It’s not quite ready for an open alpha release, but it’s close - close enough that I’m ready to write about it, show it off, and start getting feedback. This is the thing I dreamed of as an application developer, and I want to know what you think!

When Rive open-sourced their 2D vector engine and made a splash on HN a couple weeks ago (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39766893), I was intrigued. Rive’s renderer is built as a higher-level 2D API similar to SVG, whereas the Wander renderer (the open-source runtime part of Renderlet) exposes a lower-level 3D API over the GPU. Could Renderlet use its GPU backend to run the Rive Renderer library, enabling any 3D app to have a 2D vector backend? Yes it can - I implemented it!

You can see it working here: https://vimeo.com/929416955 and there’s a deep technical dive here: https://github.com/renderlet/wander/wiki/Using-renderlet-with-rive%E2%80%90renderer. The code for my runtime Wasm Renderer (a.k.a. Wander) is here: https://github.com/renderlet/wander.

I’ll come back and do a proper Show HN or Launch HN when the compiler is ready for anyone to use and I have the integration working on all platforms, but I hope this is interesting enough to take a look at now. I want to hear what you think of this!

I am glad people are working on it!!

Have you seen Kha by any chance? It has similar goals. I find it quite awesome, but it won't gain mass adoption for a bunch of reasons. https://github.com/Kode/Kha

Someone built an immediate mode renderer on top https://github.com/armory3d/zui, which is utilised by ArmorPaint https://armorpaint.org. I also use Zui for my own bespoke 2D game engine.

I find this tech and tooling really quite amazing (just look at how little source code Zui has) given just how small the ecosystem around it is. I think Kha really illustrates what can be achievable if the lower levels have robust but simple APIs, just exposing the bare minimum as a standard for others to build upon.

For the kind of project I work on (mostly 2d games), I think it would really awesome if your framework also supported low level audio, and a variety of inputs such as keyboard, mice, and gamepads. If it also had decent text rendering support it would basically be my dream library/framework.

Kha (zlib/Haxe) https://github.com/Kode/Kha

So doing the calculation on CPU and including it with other uniforms is the best way to minimise overhead. Have a look at buffers rather than individually binding each variable. See https://github.com/Kode/Kha/issues/1365 for why UBOs are not available in WebGL 2.0.

Kha on haxelib was discontinued many years ago - we sadly now felt it was necessary to remove it entirely from haxelib because people kept using it despite the scary warning message it prints on every run. This "lib" now contains only this readme, please see https://github.com/Kode/Kha/wiki/Getting-Started for instructions on how to actually use Kha.

I ported my https://rpgplayground.com from AS3 to Haxe. It was the most sane technology to replace Flash, because it came with some platform independent benefits (as opposed to coding straight in JavaScript)

Not using Heaps but https://github.com/Kode/Kha.

And I think you are indeed correct in your assumption, since I know plenty of others who made that switch.

I'm looking to some other libs that inspired notan, like http://kha.tech " Ultra-portable, high performance, open source multimedia framework. " Or SFML " SFML provides a simple interface to the various components of your PC, to ease the development of games and multimedia applications. "

At its core the beauty of Flash was the extremely tight interplay between vector graphics in nested timelines, and the the programming environment. Many people compare Flash to Unity, but I really don't find the two all that comparable. You don't create your assets in Unity, and by the time those assets get into Unity you have lost most potential for dynamic behaviour. Flash's tight integration allowed for extremely fast iterations, and its hierarchal model was very flexible and allowed you to work very fast and creatively.

I'm surprised no one has had a good crack at re-creating the core functionality of Flash circa 2004, based on web tech, or something like Kha[1]. I've thought many times about starting such a project. I think the biggest challenges are developing a solid vector rendering runtime alongside the vector drawing tools, but just about everything else that ex-Flashers want can be reduced down to some pretty simple functionality. You could even forego all the cruft of the display list, the event model, etc, and just go with a simpler immediate mode renderer and I think you'd still be retaining those core components that made Flash special.

There are so many use cases (eLearning experience, Digital Signage, Touch Screen Kiosks) that Unity isn't particularly suitable for, and for which HTML/Javascript is just clunky, that such a tool could far better accomodate.

1. https://github.com/Kode/Kha.

Not to forget Kha http://kha.tech/ or even Armory3D https://armory3d.org/