myhdl VS MicroPython

Thank you for tackling this critical problem for logic designiners. I think the tools available are much too old for fast paced workflows.

From my experience attempting to get a similar workflow down for my company:

I tried to use verilator a while back but ultimately I couldn't because it didn't have same constraints in the verilog language features that I was going to use in production. It doesn't even matter who was missing a feature, verilator or the proprietary tool, it was just about getting them to be same that caused the cognitive dissonance that I didn't want to deal with.

I ultimately decided to move away from verilator and use the clunky proprietary tools since it was what would be used in production. Getting "verilator compatibility" seemed like a "nice to have".

Second, the a winning local-first framework of verilator wasn't really established. You show in your example running a test from the yaml file using what looks like a bash script. Even as an experienced programmer who knows bash and sh well, I still find it very hard to write complex thoughts in it. The last high level attempt I found to bridge this gap is likely https://www.myhdl.org/ I don't know them personally, but it seemed like they had some very good thoughts on what makes writing good hardware level tests good. I think it would be worth reaching out to them if you haven't already.

The one thing that even more critical was a way to run our tests locally. The 10-20 seconds it takes to start a docker image (best case) in the cloud is really frustrating when you are "so close to finding a bug" and you "just want to see if this one line change is going to fix it". Once we got our whole pipeline going, it would take 1-6 minutes to "start a run" since it often had to rebuild previous steps that cache large parts of the design.

So I think you will want to see how you can help bring people's "local's first" workflows slowly into the cloud. Some tools (or just tutorials) that help you take a failing test, and run it locally and on the cloud will be really good especially as you get people to transition!

Also PyMTL, PyRTL, and MyHDL.

MyHDL

Any hardware designers here who use Python for designing hardware? There are a bunch of libraries that all seem promising MyHDL, PyRTL, PyVerilog, PyLog, PyMTL3, ... All seem to work roughly the same. Write code in Python and transpile it to VHDL/Verilog. Which of these are popular and well-maintained? MyHDL looks good but it's last release was 0.10 in 2018 and for hardware design you don't want to rely on 0.x software. Anything like Chisel for Python.

It is : https://www.myhdl.org/

Personally I have fond memories of MyHDL [0], which may be seen as another "code-to-silicon" converter (or at least as the first step of a code-to-silicon workflow). I used it only briefly, and on a school project that had surprisingly little to do with actual hardware design [1], but it really felt "Pythonic" in the best possible way.

[0]: https://www.myhdl.org/

[1]: https://github.com/lou1306/gssi/tree/master/2pc

Just putting my hand up to say that MicroPython is awesome (and runs on the RP2040). https://micropython.org

Gah, I just ordered one on impulse [1]. I've wanted to build out a WiFi PDA for quite some time now and I like this hardware.

I'm quite liking the idea of running tulip MicroPython [2] on it, or going back to pure MicroPython [3] and writing some drivers. Apparently something like ampy can be used to upload/download Python files [4].

Threads could be quite exciting for running multiple programs at once [5], although I have no idea what it means for two programs to fight over GPIO! It does seem as though MicroPython can only utilise a single core [6].

[1] https://www.lilygo.cc/products/t-deck?variant=43087936487605

[2] https://github.com/bwhitman/tulipcc/tree/main/tulip/tdeck

[3] https://docs.micropython.org/en/latest/esp32/tutorial/intro....

[4] https://www.digikey.co.uk/en/maker/projects/micropython-basi...

[5] https://docs.micropython.org/en/latest/library/_thread.html

[6] https://github.com/micropython/micropython/issues/8197

If you really want to engage in the travesty that is shoehorning a high level scripting language into an environment that has 512 bytes of RAM and less clock cycles than an electric toothbrush, there is micropython.

There is some work to implement a common CAN interface in micropython but it's some way off yet: https://github.com/micropython/micropython/pull/13149

https://github.com/raspberrypi/pico-sdk/ links to a PDF about connecting to the interwebs with a pi pico.

micropython/micropython//ports/rp2/boards/RPI_PICO_W: https://github.com/micropython/micropython/tree/master/ports...

raspberrypi/pico-sdk /lib: btstack, cyw43-driver, lwip, mbedtls, tinyusb https://github.com/raspberrypi/pico-sdk/tree/master/lib

raspberrypi/pico-examples//pico_w/wifi/access_point/picow_access_point.c:

https://github.com/raspberrypi/pico-examples/blob/master/pic...

There's an iperf opkg pkg, or is it just netperf (which works with fluent)?

raspberrypi/pico-examples//pico_w/wifi/iperf/picow_iperf.c:

Needed for hobby project, maintained by very small team. Haven't decided on specific microcontroller. Needed for general bit-banging, speed and code size are not priorities.

So far have considered MicroPython [0] [1] and Lua [2] [3], but open for suggestions for others.

What are experiences?

[0] https://micropython.org/

Python is also a general-purpose programming language. It's typically used on desktop / laptop computers. But Micropython is a variant that can be used to program embedded devices.