makepad VS shaders

It is what Makepad is working on in an interesting way using Wasm and Rust. They have created a Figma-like DSL and a good code separation with the logic behind it. You can edit UI's of in-production apps, and they are bundling an editor for that. Accessibility is an issue, and the project are looking to offer proper support there. In their video linked on the README they run the conference slides on Makepad with live apps embedded and running at 120 fps.

https://github.com/makepad/makepad

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36567681

> if anyone tells you they need to use WebAssembly to make the UI snappy I'd advise you interrogate that assertion thoroughly.

Get prepared to be blown away by Makepad [0]. I have no affiliation with them, but just watched their most recent conference presentation [1]. The slides were made with Makepad itself and included, embedded, a full-blown IDE, a synthesizer app, a Mandelbrod to zoom in endlessly, and more. All running at 120fps. The presentation is for the most part live-coding with this setup.

What they want to do is bring coders and designers closer together, and while some code is in Rust they developed a DSL for the GUI parts that is close to how Figma works. These GUI's can run anywhere.

And I couldn't help thinking "Why would people have complicated stacks to create Web 2.0 apps for the Google Web, when they have this?", in other words an opportunity to break out of the browser straitjacket.

[0] https://github.com/makepad/makepad

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rC4FCS-oMpg

For those who haven’t seen it, Makepad is also an in-browser code editor with an open-source UI toolkit. Looks like this synth is one of the examples of the UI toolkit.

https://makepad.dev/

And I'm obsessed with what happens when you press Alt in their editor. I never knew I wanted this, but boy, do I want it.

I tried this, using https://makepad.dev our GPU accelerated UI and renderstack. And unfortunately it wasn't a great experience. Text popping forward for whatever reason is not really an improvement (i tried indent depth, syntax highlighting reasons, cursor behavior). Maybe 'veeeeery' subtly could do something, but otherwise you dont want it to break visual symmetry as we are used to

Wow, so they did: https://github.com/makepad/makepad/pull/142

It says on the front page Mac and Web only

https://github.com/makepad/makepad#prerequisites

(windows and linux are coming )

We can! It’s a lot of work because you don’t have the whole JS ecosystem to fall back on, but to some that’s a feature not a bug.

My favorite example of this is https://makepad.dev

And a feature highlight of Code Lens. The idea is borrowed from https://github.com/makepad/makepad

When it comes to compile times, the most optimized Rust codebase I know for optimized for this is makepad.dev [1].

It is compiling from scratch on mac m1 in around 7.5s [2] and that's +100k lines of Rust. However there is close to none dependencies, so this +100k is all there is to compile pretty much.

[1] https://makepad.dev/

[2] https://twitter.com/rikarends/status/1467529091284934666

It may be close to a technical impossibility, but the Circle compiler by Sean Baxter is attempting it. That's based on an aggressive "de-pointerization" (see [1] in particular for details). There's also academic work[2] to compile C++ to shaders. I agree that it's an open question how well that will work out.

Also as pointed out elsethread, now that buffer device address is starting to land, the friction to compile pointer-intense C++ code should decrease even more. These are exciting times!

[1]: https://github.com/seanbaxter/shaders#approaching-circle-sha...

[2]: https://arxiv.org/abs/2109.14682

You can use circle c++ shader https://github.com/seanbaxter/shaders but it's limited to look linux afaik?

First we have Circle C++ shaders, which pretty much would tick all the boxes. Problem is it's closed source and only compiles host code on linux. Closed source isn't the biggest of issues actually, but prevents anyone from fixing the developers issue with interfacing with the windows ABI and getting the thing working on windows (which itself isn't something they are able to fix because windows doesn't provide the documentation to work with their ABI). However you could use it separately to compile your SPIR-V for windows since SPIR-V doesn't care about platform itself.

Yes, Vulkan GPU source is split, though technically in a way that makes it more similar to CUDA. Vulkan uses an intermediate format instead of consuming text code directly, meaning new features are easier to add and frontend code doesn't need to be passed to the vendors driver compiler. SPIR-V is like DXIL or PTX code for CUDA, basically LLVM IR for GPUs. The CUDA compiler compiles your device code into PTX code, and it's what enables you to have "non split" source code. There's even an option to have separate PTX code in CUDA. There are few projects that aim to bring Vulkan SPIR-V into source, including Rust GPU for rust (though it will still have to be in a separate file) and Circle C++ shader for C++.

My favorite use is putting user-defined attributes on data members, and using reflection to generate a UI to manipulate those values. I do it with these shadertoys:

https://github.com/seanbaxter/shaders#reflection-and-attribu...

Just mark your declarations up with custom attributes:

I'm confused what is novel about this paper. We already have unified shader programming with circle C++, with way more features, and instead of having an SPIR-V compiler, they made a source to source compiler... We have quite a few of those.

I think shader specialisation is handled pretty well in circle. Since you can essentially run arbitrary C++ code at compile time, selection and specialisation of a shader can even depend on hardware specific benchmarks. There is an extensive repo with examples here: https://github.com/seanbaxter/shaders. One example decodes a sprite sheet stored as a png at compile time and creates a specialised compute shader for it. You can also easily implement a control UI based on reflection of uniform shader parameters.

There's a project doing something similar for C++ called Circle which is pretty incredible. In its core Circle is an extension of standard C++ which adds a ton of metaprogramming facilities and other productivity enhancing features, things the base language sorely lacks like full compile-time execution of regular C++ code which lets you do anything you can normally do from runtime during compile-time (including file I/O and networking), reflection, typed enums, pattern matching, hygienic macros, list comprehensions and language-native ranges, first class paramater packs and much more.

I use them to automatically generate an ImGui interface for controlling a shadertoy here: https://github.com/seanbaxter/shaders/blob/master/README.md#user-attributes-and-dear-imgui