hpy VS mypy

There is a merge request up to add autogen rust bindings to hpy

https://github.com/hpyproject/hpy/pull/457

Are you referencing https://github.com/hpyproject/hpy?

I do hope it takes off.

The HPy project [0] seems like a promising way out of this.

[0] https://hpyproject.org/

socketify.py breaks the record for Python no other Python WebFramework/Server as able to reach 6.2 mi requests per second before in TechEmPower Benchmarks, this puts Python at the same level of performance that Golang, Rust and C++ for web development, in fact Golang got 5.2 mi req/s in this same round. Almost every server or web framework tries to use JIT to boost the performance, but only socketify.py deliveries this level of performance, and even without JIT socketify.py is twice as fast any other web framework/server in active development, and still can be much more optimized using HPy (https://hpyproject.org/). Python will get even faster and faster in future!

I think Propose a better messaging for Python is the option and a lot of languages will learn it from Rust, because rust erros are the best described errors I see in my life lol. Cargo is amazing and I think we will need a better poetry/pip for sure, HPy project will modernize extensions and packages 📦 too https://hpyproject.org/

It also show that PyPy3 will not magically boost your performance, you need to integrate in a manner that PyPy3 can optimize and delivery CPU performance, with a more complex example maybe it can help more. But why socketify is so much faster using PyPy3? The answer is CFFI, socketify did not use Cython for integration and cannot delivery the full performance on Python3, this will be solved with HPy.

HPy integration to better support CPython, PyPy and GraalPython

Absolutely everything in CPython is a PyObject, and that can’t be changed without breaking the C API. A PyObject contains (among other things) a type pointer, a reference count, and a data field; none of these things can be changed without (again) breaking the C API.

There have definitely been attempts to modernize; the HPy project (https://hpyproject.org/), for instance, moves towards a handle-oriented API that keeps implementation details private and thus enables certain optimizations.

It's got type annotations and mypy has a discussion about it here as well: https://github.com/python/mypy/issues/1282

There is already an AOT compiler for Python: Nuitka[0]. But I don't think it's much faster.

And then there is mypyc[1] which uses mypy's static type annotations but is only slightly faster.

And various other compilers like Numba and Cython that work with specialized dialects of Python to achieve better results, but then it's not quite Python anymore.

[0] https://nuitka.net/

[1] https://github.com/python/mypy/tree/master/mypyc

In Python there is MyPy that can help with this. https://www.mypy-lang.org/

It's funny you should say this.

Reading this article prompted me to future-proof a program I maintain for fun that deals with time; it had one use of utcnow, which I fixed.

And then I tripped over a runtime type problem in an unrelated area of the code, despite the code being green under "mypy --strict". (and "100% coverage" from tests, except this particular exception only occured in a "# pragma: no-cover" codepath so it wasn't actually covered)

It turns out that because of some core decisions about how datetime objects work, `datetime.date.today() < datetime.datetime.now()` type-checks but gives a TypeError at runtime. Oops. (cause discussed at length in https://github.com/python/mypy/issues/9015 but without action for 3 years)

One solution is apparently to use `datetype` for type annotations (while continuing to use `datetime` objects at runtime): https://github.com/glyph/DateType

PEP 695 is great. I've been using mypy every day at work in last couple years or so with very strict parameters (no any type etc) and I have experience writing real life programs with Rust, Agda, and some Haskell before, so I'm familiar with strict type systems. I'm sure many will disagree with me but these are my very honest opinions as a professional who uses Python types every day:

* Some types are better than no types. I love Python types, and I consider them required. Even if they're not type-checked they're better than no types. If they're type-checked it's even better. If things are typed properly (no any etc) and type-checked that's even better. And so on...

* Having said this, Python's type system as checked by mypy feels like a toy type system. It's very easy to fool it, and you need to be careful so that type-checking actually fails badly formed programs.

* The biggest issue I face are exceptions. Community discussed this many times [1] [2] and the overall consensus is to not check exceptions. I personally disagree as if you have a Python program that's meticulously typed and type-checked exceptions still cause bad states and since Python code uses exceptions liberally, it's pretty easy to accidentally go to a bad state. E.g. in the linked github issue JukkaL (developer) claims checking things like "KeyError" will create too many false positives, I strongly disagree. If a function can realistically raise a "KeyError" the program should be properly written to accept this at some level otherwise something that returns type T but 0.01% of the time raises "KeyError" should actually be typed "Raises[T, KeyError]".

* PEP 695 will help because typing things particularly is very helpful. Often you want to pass bunch of Ts around but since this is impractical some devs resort to passing "dict[str, Any]"s around and thus things type-check but you still get "KeyError" left and right. It's better to have "SomeStructure[T]" types with "T" as your custom data type (whether dataclass, or pydantic, or traditional class) so that type system has more opportunities to reject bad programs.

* Overall, I'm personally very optimistic about the future of types in Python!

[1] https://github.com/python/mypy/issues/1773

# is fixed: https://github.com/python/mypy/issues/12987.

You probably already know but you can add type hints and then check for consistency with https://github.com/python/mypy in python.

Modern Python with things like https://learnpython.com/blog/python-match-case-statement/ + mypy + Ruff for linting https://github.com/astral-sh/ruff can get pretty good results.

I found typed dataclasses (https://docs.python.org/3/library/dataclasses.html) in python using mypy to give me really high confidence when building data representations.