blitz VS Azul

Have you talked to the Dioxus people recently?

They're working on a project called Dioxus Blitz; from what I'm told, they're trying to implement a minimal browser target, that provides some basic DOM-like features and renders with wgpu.

It's not exactly what you're hoping for, but you might find common ground.

https://github.com/DioxusLabs/blitz

(Also, the Linebender project is working on Masonry, with FFI as a medium-term goal.)

Your proposal sounds very similar to what the Dioxus folks are doing on Blitz, which is using HTML/CSS as the languages but doing native rendering. WebF seems much further along, and I know they've been exploring other rendering engines, so it may be an interesting conversation for you to have with them.

Others have already mentioned inlyne and blitz, however given that you're interested in combining web UI with game/wgpu rendering you may be more interested in bevy_ui (and the higher level APIs like bevy_ui_dsl and belly that sit on top of this). Bevy UI is working on a HTML model and is specifically designed to integrate with Bevy's main game renderer and other infrastructure. It's worth noting that a 0.11 release of Bevy of due in next few days, and that UI is going to be a strong focus of the 0.12 release cycle: which should lead to significant development of bevy_ui, and either a doubling down on the "HTML-like UI" approach or a pivot to a new approach.

Here is an example: https://github.com/DioxusLabs/blitz/blob/master/examples/buttons.rs

> But no one is saying, "Hey I have a CSS 2.1 compliant rasterizer and compositor that you can use in your C++ or Rust environment!" are they?

There’s actually quite a lot of interesting work going on in that general space, has been in various forms for some years. A couple that immediately spring to mind:

• Azul <https://azul.rs/> builds on WebRender, as used in Firefox. I haven’t looked at it for a few years, but it looks to have grown quite interesting now.

• Blitz <https://github.com/DioxusLabs/blitz> is based on from-scratch implementations of CSS layout and rendering, and wgpu rendering. It’s not usable yet, but is a very interesting concept. If one happens to be familiar with React Native: it’s kinda like that, or React Native Web.

You may also be interested in https://github.com/DioxusLabs/blitz which aims to be a full HTML+CSS renderer on top of wgpu (but is currently not nearly as complete as inlyne).

If you are focused on performance we are working on a native renderer for Dioxus called Blitz. It is very incomplete right now, but in the future it will be much more performant than the current webview based approach.

There hasn't been too much progress on Blitz in the last few weeks (it will come), but there is now a new project Freya which is using a Dioxus frontend and rendering with Skia. That's currently using it's own layout system instead of Taffy though.

The main desktop renderer for Dioxus uses wry (the webview tauri uses internally), so the startup time will likely be similar. We are working on a native renderer called blitz which should improve this, but development is still early

Not sure what you mean but WebRender powers Firefox which definitely works on the desktop.

You can use it to build desktop UI frameworks - see for example https://azul.rs/

I'd been wanting to see this, preferably with JS being optional, and just allowing direct DOM access.

I initially thought this was what Azul was, but it's only just using Servo's WebRender compositor, and rolls its own CSS parser, DOM, and layout engine, so it doesn't benefit from most of the work done on Servo, and supports less CSS features.

https://github.com/fschutt/azul

Both Servo and Fifefox make use of webrender, which is an awesome piece of tech and is well suited to render a web page. Some GUI projects attempted to use webrender directly as well, like Azul and moxie-native

> But no one is saying, "Hey I have a CSS 2.1 compliant rasterizer and compositor that you can use in your C++ or Rust environment!" are they?

There’s actually quite a lot of interesting work going on in that general space, has been in various forms for some years. A couple that immediately spring to mind:

• Azul <https://azul.rs/> builds on WebRender, as used in Firefox. I haven’t looked at it for a few years, but it looks to have grown quite interesting now.

• Blitz <https://github.com/DioxusLabs/blitz> is based on from-scratch implementations of CSS layout and rendering, and wgpu rendering. It’s not usable yet, but is a very interesting concept. If one happens to be familiar with React Native: it’s kinda like that, or React Native Web.

Azul[1] was my solution for that, it was based on WebRender. I didn't get around to finish it in 2019, but I will work on it this year, maybe I'll get it to be mature enough to post it here.

> wide portability (at least Windoze, Linux, MacOS, iOS, Android, embedded: Azul is Windows-Linux-Mac only, don't underestimate the effort to properly port something to a new platform

> "though a Vulkan-based renderer can be made to run pretty much anywhere": WebRender is OpenGL + using software rendering as a fallback

> a permissive open source license: MPL-2.0

> a C interface/wrap to allow a wide programming language binding support: yes

> and an easily extensible and themable set of basic widgets: also yes

[1] https://azul.rs/

There is Iced which is used by system76 in Pop!_OS, Druid [DISCONTINUED], GTK-rs, Relm, Azul and Tauri. Personally I would use Tauri for its speed using the OS's native web render, documentation of use with things such as Sveltekit and the ability to make UI's using JS, CSS and HTML. Tauri similarly to Electron whilst being far faster. But its up to personal preference really. There aren't any solid "go to" options at the moment.

Sounds like you may be interested in azul not exactly servo based but on projects that originate from servo. Also this is not a typical WebView, for example it does not use HTML but uses DOM to define it's UI, and there is no JS engine in there.

Azul uses webrender. But your "glue" program is like half the web browser. You also need a vector graphics library to render websites. Webrender only does boxes, but not complex SVG paths. Once the plan was to use pathfinder, but mozilla fired the dev and they still using an old version of chromium's skia for that.

One day I'll get around to finish my library Azul [1]. Hopefully.

[1] https://azul.rs/

azul