wonnx VS Cgml

The two I know of are IREE and Kompute[1]. I'm not sure how much momentum the latter has, I don't see it referenced much. There's also a growing body of work that uses Vulkan indirectly through WebGPU. This is currently lagging in performance due to lack of subgroups and cooperative matrix mult, but I see that gap closing. There I think wonnx[2] has the most momentum, but I am aware of other efforts.

[1]: https://kompute.cc/

[2]: https://github.com/webonnx/wonnx

To a first approximation, Kompute[1] is that. It doesn't seem to be catching on, I'm seeing more buzz around WebGPU solutions, including wonnx[2] and more hand-rolled approaches, and IREE[3], the latter of which has a Vulkan back-end.

[1]: https://kompute.cc/

[2]: https://github.com/webonnx/wonnx

[3]: https://github.com/openxla/iree

There's also a third-party WebGPU implementation: https://github.com/webonnx/wonnx

By experimental I meant e.g. using WGPU to run compute shaders like wonnx, which is working fine but only on a very restricted set of devices and browsers.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35696031 ... TIL about wonnx: https://github.com/webonnx/wonnx#in-the-browser-using-webgpu...

microsoft/onnxruntime: https://github.com/microsoft/onnxruntime

Apache/arrow has language-portable Tensors for cpp: https://arrow.apache.org/docs/cpp/api/tensor.html and rust: https://docs.rs/arrow/latest/arrow/tensor/struct.Tensor.html and Python: https://arrow.apache.org/docs/python/api/tables.html#tensors https://arrow.apache.org/docs/python/generated/pyarrow.Tenso...

Fwiw it looks like the llama.cpp Tensor is from ggml, for which there are CUDA and OpenCL implementations (but not yet ROCm, or a WebGPU shim for use with emscripten transpilation to WASM): https://github.com/ggerganov/llama.cpp/blob/master/ggml.h

Are the recommendable ways to cast e.g. arrow Tensors to pytorch/tensorflow?

FWIU, Rust has a better compilation to WASM; and that's probably faster than already-compiled-to-JS/ES TensorFlow + WebGPU.

What's a fair benchmark?

wonnx has done some fantastic work in this regard, so that's where we plan to start once we get there. In terms of general discussion of alternate backends, see this issue.

> GPU in other ways, such as training ML models and then using them via an inference engine all powered by your local GPU?

Have a look at wonnix https://github.com/webonnx/wonnx

A WebGPU-accelerated ONNX inference run-time written 100% in Rust, ready for native and the web

Looking forward to your WebGPU ML runtime! Also, why not contribute back to WONNX? (https://github.com/webonnx/wonnx)

You can indeed perform inference using WebGPU (see e.g. [1] for GPU-accelerated inference of ONNX models on WebGPU; I am one of the authors).

The point made above is that WebGPU can only be used for GPU's and not really for other types of 'neural accelerators' (like e.g. the ANE on Apple devices).

[1] https://github.com/webonnx/wonnx

> Meant no offense

None taken.

> computervison project in c#

Yeah, for CV applications nuget.org is indeed not particularly great. Very few people are using C# for these things, people typically choose something else like Python and OpenCV.

BTW, same applies to ML libraries, most folks are using Python/Torch/CUDA stack. For that hobby project https://github.com/Const-me/Cgml/ I had to re-implement the entire tech stack in C#/C++/HLSL.

> If there is a future with this idea, its gotta be just shipping the LLM with game right?

That might be a nice application for this library of mine: https://github.com/Const-me/Cgml/

That’s an open source Mistral ML model implementation which runs on GPUs (all of them, not just nVidia), takes 4.5GB on disk, uses under 6GB of VRAM, and optimized for interactive single-user use case. Probably fast enough for that application.

You wouldn’t want in-game dialogues with the original model though. Game developers would need to finetune, retrain and/or do something else with these weights and/or my implementation.

If you just want to run Mistral on Windows, you could try my port: https://github.com/Const-me/Cgml/tree/master/Mistral/Mistral...

The setup is relatively easy: install .NET runtime, download 4.5 GB model file from BitTorrent, unpack a small ZIP file and run the EXE.

Speaking about random sampling during inference, most ML models are doing it rather inefficiently.

Here’s a better way: https://github.com/Const-me/Cgml/blob/master/Readme.md#rando...

My HLSL is easily portable to CUDA, which has `__syncthreads` and `atomicInc` intrinsics.

I did a few times with Direct3D 11 compute shaders. Here’s an open-source example: https://github.com/Const-me/Cgml

Pretty sure Vulkan gonna work equally well, at the very least there’s an open source DXVK project which implements D3D11 on top of Vulkan.

Here’s an example of a custom 4 bits/weight codec for ML weights:

https://github.com/Const-me/Cgml/blob/master/Readme.md#bcml1...

llama.cpp does it slightly differently but still, AFAIK their quantized data formats are conceptually similar to my codec.

> the API was high-friction due to the shader language, and the glue between shader and CPU

Direct3D 11 compute shaders share these things with Vulkan, yet D3D11 is relatively easy to use. For example, see that library which implements ML-targeted compute shaders for C# with minimal friction: https://github.com/Const-me/Cgml The backend implemented in C++ is rather simple, just binds resources and dispatches these shaders.

I think the main usability issue with Vulkan is API design. Vulkan was only designed with AAA game engines in mind. The developers of these game engines have borderline unlimited budgets, and their requirements are very different from ordinary folks who want to leverage GPU hardware.

Minor update https://github.com/Const-me/Cgml/releases/tag/1.1a Can’t edit that comment anymore, too late.