typeshed VS Nuitka

"csv.pyi is from VS Code Pylance extension" is misleading. Yes, it's included in the code base of the extension, but it's likely originally from python/typeshed. I diffed csv.pyi in the extension and the repository, and they're exactly the same.

You can check the typeshed library that offers stubs for many packages.

https://github.com/python/typeshed is Python's equivalent of DefinitelyTyped. I'm not 100% sure why it's not more of a popular thing the way DefinitelyTyped is; I think there might, to some extent, be different attitudes around the appropriateness of having third-party typings for packages, when the actual maintainer of the package isn't interested in providing first-party ones.

https://github.com/python/mypy same with typeshed https://github.com/python/typeshed

Here's the tensorflow type stubs on typeshed. https://github.com/python/typeshed/tree/main/stubs/tensorflow

Also, be aware that there is already a central place for stubs files. If you are going to take the time to write one, contributing it there will help everyone if the package owners aren't already including some type hints.

Python's type hints are definitely an improvement and they're getting better all the time, but they're still frustrating to use at anything approaching the edge. I long for something as elegant and functional as TypeScript.

One hurdle I've stumbled over recently is the question "what is a type?", the answer can be surprising. Unions, for example, are types but not `Type`s. A function that takes an argument of type `Type` will not accept a Union. So if you want to write a function that effectively "casts" a parameter to a specified type, you can't. The best you can do is have an overload that accepts `Type` and does an actual cast, and then another that just turns it into `Any`. This is, in fact, how the standard library types its `cast` function [1]. The argument I've seen for the current behavior is that `Type` describes anything that can be passed to isinstance, but that's not a satisfying answer. Even then, `Union` can be passed to isinstance and still does not work with `Type`. Talk currently is to introduce a new kind of type called `TypeForm` or something to address this, which is certainly an improvement over nothing, but still feels like technical debt.

[1]: https://github.com/python/typeshed/blob/main/stdlib/typing.p...

>Ultimately if you care enough about Fody to spend over a hundred dollars worth of your time contributing to it, you probably care enough about Fody to drop them three dollars.

No, I really don't.

https://github.com/keepassxreboot/keepassxc/pull/8500 - I was randomly reading keepassxc's manpage and spotted a curious option, spent some time spelunking through the code and history to discover that it was an outdated option, sent a PR.

https://github.com/python/typeshed/pull/8617 - I converted one of the scripts I use in my DE from shell to Python, saw that VSCode has this new fancy typing support for Python, quickly found a basic bug in the type definitions for the os module, tested a fix locally, sent a PR.

https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/issues/5250 - I found an issue with copy-paste on my phone, investigated it all the way through to the GTK stack, found the commits that introduced the issue, created a distro patch for it while discussing it with GTK upstream.

https://gitlab.alpinelinux.org/alpine/aports/-/merge_request... - I noticed that gnome-passwordsafe crashes some times, debugged it to discover that it was missing a dependency, sent a PR to the distro package to update the dependencies.

etc etc. I've made lots of fixes like these. I have no interest in paying for each and every one of them. The projects are all better off for fixes like mine and gatekeeping them on payment would've been nothing but their loss.

The csv module is one of those standard library modules that doesn't provide its own type hints, but instead gets them through the external typeshed project, and (for compatibility/implementation reasons, I surmise) the name of these types sometimes don't quite align with the objects they correspond to. So, for all intents and purposes, _csv._reader is the correct name of the type that csv.reader() returns, as ugly as it is.

You have to do handling like that in other languages like TypeScript anyway.

Painpoint with type annotations:

- not being able to reuse "shapes" of data: TypedDict, NamedTuple, dataclasses.dataclass, and soon kwargs (PEP 692 [1]) all have named, typed fields now. You have to

- Since there's no generic "shape" structure that works across data types, there isn't a way to load up a JSON / YAML / TOML into a dictionary, upcast it via a `TypedGuard`, and pass it into a TypedDict / NamedTuple / Dataclass. dataclasses.asdict() or dataclasses.astuple() return naive / untyped tuples and dicts. Also the factory functions will not work with TypedDict or NamedTuple, respectively, even if you duplicate the fields by hand. See my post here: https://github.com/python/typeshed/issues/8580

- Standard library doesn't have runtime validation (e.g. pydantic / https://github.com/pydantic/pydantic).

- pytest fixtures are hard.

- Django is hard. PEP 681 may not be a saving grace either. [3]

[1] https://peps.python.org/pep-0692/

Thanks for the feedback! I'm Syrus, main author of the work on py2wasm.

We already opened a PR into Nuitka to bring the relevant changes upstream: https://github.com/Nuitka/Nuitka/pull/2814

We envision py2wasm being a thin layer on top of Nuitka, as also commented in the article.

From what we gathered, we believe that there's usefulness on having py2wasm as a separate package, as py2wasm would also need to ship the precompiled Python distribution (3.11) for WASI (which will not be needed for the other Nuitka use cases), apart of also shipping other tools that are not directly relevant for Nuitka

This is a good place to mention https://nuitka.net/ which aims to compile python programs into standalone binaries.

For Python, you could make a proper deployment binary using Nuitka (in standalone mode – avoid onefile mode for this). I'm not pretending it's as easy as building a Go executable: you may have to do some manual hacking for more unusual unusual packages, and I don't think you can cross compile. I think a key element you're getting at is that Go executables have very few dependencies on OS packages, but with Python (once you've sorted the actual Python dependencies) you only need the packages used for manylinux [2], which is not too onerous.

[1] https://nuitka.net/

[2] https://peps.python.org/pep-0599/#the-manylinux2014-policy

glee is rich in blogging features but has some drawbacks. One of the main drawbacks is its compatibility with multiple operating systems and system architectures. We lost one potential customer due to glee incompatibility in macOS. Another major issue is the deployment time. We built the first version of glee entirely in Python and used nuitka, nuitka compiles Python programs into a single executable binary file. We need to create three separate stages for creating executable binaries for Windows, Mac, and Linux in deployment, and it takes around 20 minutes to complete.

There is already an AOT compiler for Python: Nuitka[0]. But I don't think it's much faster.

And then there is mypyc[1] which uses mypy's static type annotations but is only slightly faster.

And various other compilers like Numba and Cython that work with specialized dialects of Python to achieve better results, but then it's not quite Python anymore.

[0] https://nuitka.net/

[1] https://github.com/python/mypy/tree/master/mypyc

Nuitka deals pretty well with those in general: https://nuitka.net/

Hi HN,

Has anyone explored Nuitka [1] and developed understanding from a blank slate?

Is there any toy version of this, so that one can start playing with the language translation concepts?

Is there any underlying theory/inspiration upon which this project is built?

Are there any similar projects, in say other languages?

[1] https://github.com/Nuitka/Nuitka

That's more of cultural problem in the Python community.

If I provide an end user software to my client written an Python (so not a backend, not a lib...), I will compile it with nuitka (https://github.com/Nuitka/Nuitka) and hide the stack trace (https://www.bitecode.dev/p/why-and-how-to-hide-the-python-st...) to provide a stand alone executable.

This means the users don't have to know it's made with Python or install anything, and it just works.

However, Python is not like Go or Rust, and providing such an installer requires more than work, so a huge part of the user base (which have a lot of non professional coders) don't have the skill, time or resources to do it.

And few people make the promotion of it.

I should write an article on that because really, nobody wants to setup python just to use a tool.

As for a simpler option, you could use a "compiler": https://github.com/Nuitka/Nuitka