oxide-and-friends VS tock

After listening to the Oxide and Friends episode about the Rust trademark dustup I thought some people in the Rust community might be interested in a concept I've been working on for a while called Persistent Democracy.

They've been doing Twitter Spaces for several months now, with recordings and show notes here: https://github.com/oxidecomputer/twitter-spaces Disclosure: I was the main speaker on one of their spaces.

For anyone interested in the history of NeXT, I highly recommend Randall Stross's "Steve Jobs and the NeXT Big Thing."[0] (And I regret that I may have personally had some role in the current outsized prices of used copies -- my apologies!) We also had a really interesting Twitter Spaces discussion of both the book -- and on NeXT more generally.[1]

[0] https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/226316.Steve_Jobs_the...

[1] https://github.com/oxidecomputer/twitter-spaces/blob/master/...

Also, where are my manners?! Really glad you're enjoying our Twitter Spaces[0] -- and thank you for the kind words!

[0] https://github.com/oxidecomputer/twitter-spaces

Hi! This is Daniel from OxidOS Automotive (stating this for disclaimer purposes).

Yes, our OS is based on TockOS, and our CEO (Alex Radovici) is #7 in the contributors list (https://github.com/tock/tock/graphs/contributors), with other colleagues contributing in the past years.

I'm definitely not the best person to answer this, but honestly it's not bad. Here's an example of a moderately complex peripheral, the cortex-m MPU, and how one rust OS handles it:

https://github.com/tock/tock/blob/3a0527d586702b8ae8cb242391...

Reads and writes turn into volatile reads, so everything works out under the hood. You get the benefits of everything having good names, declared sizes, and proper typing on your register accesses. You can extend that to bit accesses as well.

Rust still has a few areas it isn't competitive in, like your hyper limited or obscure chips (e.g. 8051s, XAP), mature tooling around formal methods, and a certification story for safety critical code. People are working on these latter two issues (e.g. ferrocene) and supposedly very close to public delivery, but you know how slow the industry is to adopt new things even then.

There's Tock (https://www.tockos.org/), which is written in Rust (with sprinkles of assembly).

Yeah, and I like I mentioned in the earlier comment, omitting the frame pointer reduces code size by 10% on RISC-V targets, which is huge when dealing with embedded flash: https://github.com/tock/tock/pull/1660

Tock is an excellent embedded OS written in Rust and has some good industrial support. I think Tock gets a lot of stuff right and I highly recommend some of the talks the developers gave on it.

Unfortunately, it increases the code size by 10%. I was looking into this just last week, and can confirm that it's still a problem on the latest version of Rust nightly: https://github.com/tock/tock/pull/1660

I wish we could have frame pointers, because they would make working in embedded land so much easier and more reliable, but a 10% increase in code size just isn't worth it.