intercooler-js VS rupy

An early version of Htmx was in fact based on jQuery (https://intercoolerjs.org).

I used HTMX since the intercooler days [0] but the stuff you can make is rather limited. Also you still need the JS to deal with a11y things like expanded state (or hyperscript, apparently).

If you have a lot of components to implement, everything requires thinking.

I really love it for simple applications though. Resist implementing a complicated menu, live notifications, an editable data-table and such non-web-native things and you can create the fastest CRUD app ever.

And you will need another client, but that's not really an issue if your view model does not contain non-public data (it shouldn't), as you can convert it to JSON at the same endpoint and call it an API.

[0]: https://intercoolerjs.org/

to an extent, there was `jQuery.get` but it wasn't tightly integrated with HTML

the original version of htmx was intercooler.js:

https://intercoolerjs.org

released in 2013, and that version depended on jQuery

You asked for it:

https://htmx.org

https://hyperscript.org

I hated angular when it first came out and couldn't believe what insanity people were willing to come up with, so long as it came from google. (e.g. GWT) I created https://intercoolerjs.org out of frustration with that, and the lack of progress in HTML/hypermedia in general, so I could build a web application I was working on (https://leaddyno.com, since sold).

When covid hit I took a look back at intercooler and decided that it was really two things: HTML++ and a scripting language, so I split it up into htmx, focused just on the hypermedia angle, and hyperscript, the scripting language I wanted for the web (derived from HyperTalk, and old scripting language from HyperCard on the mac).

I know use them both professionally (email me if you want to use them too.)

I created intercooler.js in 2013 so I could do AJAX in HTML:

https://intercoolerjs.org

Last year I removed the jquery dependency and cleaned it up based on a lot of lessons that I learned, renaming it to hmtx:

https://htmx.org

Same idea: extends/complete HTML as a hypertext so you can build more advanced UI within the original hypermedia web model, and cleaner implementation.

Part of that cleanup involved me pulling out some functionality around events and a proto-scripting language (ic-action), and I enjoy programming languages, so I created a front end scripting language to fill that need:

https://hyperscript.org

It's based on HyperTalk and has a lot of domain specific features for lightweight front end scripting, kind of a jQuery or AlpineJS alternative.

This is my experience, and your mileage may vary:

Multiple times in my coding career I have felt stalled and/or like I was regressing.

Early on, I worked on a programming language, gosu (https://gosu-lang.github.io/) which ended up not really going anywhere. Once the work on it was done, I returned to more mundane web programming for a while. A long while after that, and unexpectedly, I turned a jQuery function I was noodling on into intercooler.js (https://intercoolerjs.org/). After a year of that I returned to mundane web programming for quite a while. Unexpectedly, a year ago, the country shut down. I was at home and decided to see if I could remove the jQuery dependency in intercooler.js, and so created htmx (https://htmx.org/). When creating htmx and removing some attribute/functionality, I realized that a small programming language would be the ideal replacement, so I created hyperscript: https://hyperscript.org/. I had not expected to work on a programming language again, but now I am.

So my career has been some very exciting technical projects punctuating long stretches of pretty basic web development, where the most exciting thing is me wondering if I can figure out what the deuce is wrong with my CSS. My takeaway here, at least in my career, is that patience is a virtue, and the interesting stuff tends to come up at irregular intervals and in unexpected moments and ways.

htmx is the successor to intercooler.js. It swaps parts of the page, not the whole page like Turbolinks. htmx allows you to access AJAX, CSS Transitions, WebSockets and Server Sent Events directly in HTML, using attributes, so you can build modern user interfaces with the simplicity and power of hypertext

I have been running a Raspberry 2 cluster for 10 years: http://host.rupy.se

A few weeks back the first SD card to fail got so corrupted it failed to reboot!

My key learning is use oversized cards, because then the bitcycle will wear slower!

I'm going from 32GB to 256/512/1024!

How this article does not mention SSE, comet or chunking escapes me.

What does their definition of event-driven really look like in practice.

Nobody has a clue.

Here is the ideal event driven system, it's async-to-async: https://github.com/tinspin/rupy/wiki/Fuse

The example is not working because I had to shut down the services for multiple reasons, but the high level of it is that you use 4 (potentially different) threads to do one request/response middle man transaction.

That way you have _zero_ io-wait or idling. I'm surprised nobody has copied this approach since I invented it 10 years ago. I understand why though you need your entire chain to be async and that means rewriting everything and that is a big risk when it's hard to debug.

But if you succeed you can build something that is 10x perf/watt than all other implementations. Which is going to be important when interest rates go higher and crash our entire industry.

The hardware is peaking.

So software is where you can make the difference: http://host.rupy.se

I think we're all confused over the definition. Also one might understand what all the proponents are talking about better if they think about this more as a process and not some technological solution:

https://github.com/tinspin/rupy/wiki/Process

All input I have is you want your code to run on many machines, in fact you want it to run the same on all machines you need to deliver and preferably more. Vertically and horizontally at the same time, so your services only call localhost but in many separate places.

This in turn mandates a distributed database. And later you discover it has to be capable of async-to-async = no blocking ever anywhere in the whole solution.

The way I do this is I hot-deploy my applications async. to all servers in the cluster, this is what a cluster node looks like in practice (the name next to Host: is the node): http://host.rupy.se if you click "api & metrics" you'll see the services.

With this not only do you get scalability, but also redundancy and development is maintained at live coding levels.

I have hosted my own web server both physically and codevise since 2014.

It's on a Raspberry 2 cluster:

http://host.rupy.se

Since 2016 i have my own database also coded from scratch:

http://root.rupy.se

We need to implement HTTP/1.1 with less bloat, a C non-blocking web server that can share memory between threads is probably the most interesting project for humans right now, is anyone working on that?

I have one in Java: https://github.com/tinspin/rupy

Here is the 2000 lines of code of the entire database: http://root.rupy.se/code?path=/Root.java

And here you can try it out: http://root.rupy.se

The smallest PaaS you have ever seen is one order of magnitude larger than mine: https://github.com/tinspin/rupy

And I bet you the same goes for performance, if not two!

The data is here: http://fuse.rupy.se/about.html

Under Performance. Per watt the fuse/rupy platform completely crushes all competition because of 2 reasons:

- Event driven protocol design, averages at about 4 messages/player/second (means you cannot do spraying or headshots f.ex. which is another feature in my game design opinion).

- Java's memory model with atomic concurrency which needs a VM and GC (C++ copied that memory model in C++11, but it failed completely because they lack both VM and GC, but that model is still to this day the one C++ uses), you can read more about this here: https://github.com/tinspin/rupy/wiki

You can argue those points are bad arguments, but if you look at performance per watt with some consideration for developer friendlyness, I'm pretty sure in 100 years we will still be coding minimalist JavaSE on the server and vanilla C (compiled with C++ compiler) on the client.