avendish VS conan

Happy to introduce you to https://ossia.io there are a lots of tasks open! You can check the projects for the general development axes: https://github.com/ossia/score/projects?query=is%3Aopen ; e.g. Audio, Musicality, Integrations, JACK & Linux integration (some are in Classic projects mode) all have audio-related tasks, some easy, some hard.

Creating new Avendish plug-ins (docs: https://celtera.github.io/avendish/) could also be fairly useful, here's a very basic example one: https://github.com/celtera/avendish/blob/main/examples/Advan...

If you are interested in making max, pd, etc... extension you can look into https://github.com/celtera/avendish : it's made exactly for this and tries to stay very close from standard C++ unlike most existing audio frameworks which often come with their own bespoke standard library reimplementation. The documentation also tries to explain the c++ features it used, you might find this useful!

to automatically generate safe dlopen stubs for runtime dynamic library loading from header files

and through the C++ one (this one is an extremely quick and dirty prototype):

https://github.com/ossia/score/blob/master/src/plugins/score...

to pre-instantiate get(aggregate), for_each(aggregate, f) and other similar functions in https://github.com/celtera/avendish because of how slow it is when done through TMP (doing it that way removed literally dozens of megabytes from my .o and had a positive performance impact even with -O3) ; so I weep a lot when I read that people in the committee object to pack...[indexing]

I really don't know about this, I'm writing audio & media effects in a fairly declarative style with https://github.com/celtera/avendish and I'm so much more productive that it's not even funny - I can rewrite entire effects from scratch in the time that it used to take me to find a bug somewhere

For anyone using c++, my declarative system has some amount of support for clap: https://github.com/celtera/avendish / https://celtera.github.io/avendish/

But unlike clap, targetting this also gives direct access to a few other environments, namely Max, Pd, ossia score, with the list hopefully growing.

Here is an example minimal plugin : https://github.com/celtera/avendish/blob/main/examples/Raw/M...

Note that unlike pretty much every other c/c++ plugin API, the plugin code does not need to include any header, everything is done through reflection of struct members at compile-time.

Here's a per-sample noise generator which uses a small library of pre-made ports: https://github.com/celtera/avendish/blob/main/examples/Helpe...

And a very naive buffer-based audio filter : https://github.com/celtera/avendish/blob/main/examples/Helpe...

UI is supported without relying on a specific UI library, only on a canvas painter concept which can then target Qt, NanoVG, and others to come: https://github.com/celtera/avendish/blob/main/examples/Helpe...

since it binds directly to audio APIs at compile time, it has pretty much zero code size in itself, the smallest plugin it generates for VST2 is around 7kb IIRC

I've ported my lib https://github.com/celtera/avendish to P1061's experimental clang implementation to replace boost.pfr (https://github.com/celtera/avendish/blob/main/include/avnd/common/aggregates.hpp#L67) and it works great, it's only missing pack indexing because right now one still needs to do something like

Working on a sunset of this with https://github.com/celtera/avendish - C++ reflection makes this very easy

so interesting, as a mostly C++ dev, UE's C++ style feels absolutely awful aha. Of course they have to be here because c++ used to not have reflection but I think that nowadays one could use similar principles as the ones I've tried to develop for audio / media objects in https://github.com/celtera/avendish to implement game objects / UObject in a much cleaner way and with better compile times

Silly question: What's the difference between C++20 modules and https://conan.io? (Google was vague, and ChatGPT, you know, sometimes makes things up so I rather ask fellow humans...)

Conan is a package manager for C/C++. See: https://conan.io/.

The way it works is that you can provide "recipes", which are Python scripts, that automate the process of collecting source code (usually from a remote Git repository, or a remote source tarball), patching it, making its dependencies and transitive dependencies available, building for specific platform and architecture (via any number of build systems), then packaging up and serving binaries. There's a lot of complexity involved.

Here are the two recipes I mentioned:

libcurl: https://github.com/conan-io/conan-center-index/blob/master/r...

OpenSSL v3: https://github.com/conan-io/conan-center-index/blob/master/r...

Now, for the sake of this thread I want to highlight three things here:

- Conan recipes are usually made by people unaffiliated with the libraries they're packaging;

- The recipes are fully Turing-complete, do a lot of work, have their own bugs - therefore they should really be treated as software comonents themselves, for the purpose of OSS clearing/supply chain verification, except as far as I know, nobody does it;

- The recipes can, and do, patch source code and build scripts. There's supporting infrastruture for this built into Conan, and of course one can also do it by brute-force search and replace. See e.g. ZLib recipe that does it both at the same time:

https://github.com/conan-io/conan-center-index/blob/7b0ac710... -- `_patch_sources` does both direct search-and-replace in source files, and applies the patches from https://github.com/conan-io/conan-center-index/tree/master/r....

Now, good luck keeping track of what's going on there.

There were various approaches recommended depending on our language and ecosystem. My classmates who developed using Node.js were recommended npm, and PyPI or poetry for Python. Since my program is written in C++, I was recommended to look into one of vcpkg or conan, but I ultimately did not use either package manager.

Hi u/instinkt900, Conan maintainer here. Thanks for your feedback! Please remember that we actively monitor and respond to our issue tracker on GitHub (https://github.com/conan-io/conan/issues/new/choose), we’d love to hear about your specific use cases or pain points, so that we can improve your experience and that of other users. The motivation behind most of the updates in Conan 2.0 was precisely feedback from the community, and to improve our ability to continue delivering features in the constantly changing C++ ecosystem. We can certainly do this at a quicker pace, with some exciting new features recently released and in the pipeline: package metadata, transparent backup of downloaded package sources, cache least-recently-used cleanup, etc. A lot of the big decisions that we took for Conan 2.0 were taken with consensus from expert users and contributors (https://conan.io/tribe) and https://github.com/conan-io/tribe. Some specific workflows may not have 1:1 replacements in Conan 2.0, and are likely to affect some of the “less travelled roads” of Conan 1.x, including some features that were always marked as experimental. We are happy to hear feedback so that we can best satisfy these use cases. Conan 2.0 also includes a more sophisticated API to cover cases where the built-in integrations may not satisfy users needs. For what it’s worth - we have also heard very positive feedback from users about how Conan 2.0 simplifies their workflows when compared to Conan 1.x. The C++ tooling ecosystem is fragmented and moves at different speeds, including our users. So it’s always a fine balancing act, but we don’t want to leave anyone behind! An example is Conan Center - over 90% (~1200) of all recipes have been migrated to support Conan 2.0, while still maintaining compatibility with Conan 1.x, precisely to avoid breaking users that are still on Conan 1.x.

Solution: don't use git submodules - use a package manager like Conan or vcpkg.

The closest thing we have at the moment is conan[1]. It’s a cross platform package manager that attempts to implement “toolchains”, whereby different build systems can be integrated[2]. This is a big problem with package management in C/C++, there’s no single, standardised build system that most projects use. There isn’t even a standardised compiler! So when hosting your own packages using Conan, often you need to make sure you build your application for three different compilers, for three different platforms. Sometimes (for modern MacOS) also for two different architectures each.

If you control the compiler AND build system you can get away with just one package for most cases. This true for Microsoft’s C/C++ package manager, NuGet[3]

Historically, the convention has been to use the package manager of the underlying system to install packages, as there are so many different build configurations to worry about when packaging the libraries. The other advantage of using the system package manager is that dependencies (shared libraries) that are common can be shared between many applications, saving space.

[1] https://conan.io/

Anyway, the problems are today starting to get fewer, as more an more adopt standard cross-platform portable build systems, a.k.a. CMake and package managers such as vcpkg or Conan. Together this will take care of building, installing, linking and using the entire dependency tree.

Simply use a package manager: Crypto++ is available on both vcpkg and Conan.

If you want a specific version or provide a more integrated workflow that is easier to use across platforms and among many developers, use a package manager like vcpkg or Conan.

I do however always recommend using a package manager: vcpkg or Conan to install and integrate third party libraries (together with CMake). This normally solves all the typical problems with dependencies.