SQLpage VS JDBI

Saving further clicks:

> SQLPage is a tool that allows you to build websites using nothing more than SQL queries. You write simple text files containing SQL queries, SQLPage runs them on your database, and renders the results as a website.

The 22-line "TinyTweeter" example at 28:45 [0] in the video is a good overview - perhaps better than anything currently on the homepage/docs: https://github.com/lovasoa/SQLpage/blob/main/examples/tiny_t...

Also, based on a couple of discussions [1][2] it seems like SQLPage has the potential to combine well with HTMX too. The two projects definitely share a similar philosophy.

[0] https://youtu.be/mXdgmSdaXkg?t=1721

[1] https://github.com/lovasoa/SQLpage/issues/84#issuecomment-19...

[2] https://github.com/lovasoa/SQLpage/pull/175#issuecomment-187...

I am currently looking for a solution to run automated tests on a sql website generator I am working on ( https://sql.ophir.dev )

I wanted to use hurl (https://hurl.dev/), but Bruno's UI seems to be useful while developing the tests... Has someone tried both ? Which is better for automated testing, including when the response type is html and not json?

Full fledged BI tools like Superset and Metabase are amazing for their intended use cases.

But they may be an overkill if your primary use case is to infrequently build semi-interactive reports for non-technical end-users and your use cases are are mostly covered by standard graphs & tables. Esp. so if you are familiar with SQL and have access to the underlying data source. Two nifty utilities I have found to be very useful for latter kind of use cases are SQLPage and Evidence.

They make it very convenient to whip out some SQL and convert that to a neat professional looking web ui that can be forwarded to an end user. In case of Evidence it is a statically generated site, and in case of SQLPage it is a web app that connects to a live database.

SQLPage: https://sql.ophir.dev/

Evidence: https://evidence.dev

I feel obligated to add a shameless plug here. The idea is very close to a project I presented at pgconf.eu last week: SQLPage

https://sql.ophir.dev/

SQLPage has the same goal as postgrest+htmx, but is a little bit higher level. It let's you build your application using prepackaged components you can invoke directly from SQL, without having to write any HTML, CSS, or JS.

It would be great if someone could open a github issue with reproduction steps and maybe a screenshot: https://github.com/lovasoa/SQLpage/issues

The worst I'm able to get when manually disabling the cache and simulating a slow 3G connection is this: a blank page first, then text in the browser's font, then the text re-renders with the right font, then the icons load. The user should never see completely unstyled content.

The site uses "font-display: fallback" so this happens only on slow network connections. If the font loads fast enough, then the fallback never appears.

The official website for SQLPage (https://sql.ophir.dev/) is written in SQLPage.

The source code is here: https://github.com/lovasoa/SQLpage/tree/main/examples/offici...

The site also links to this little collaborative game written in SQLPage: https://conundrum.ophir.dev/

The github README has code snippets and associated screenshots: https://github.com/lovasoa/SQLpage#examples

There is also an official repl.it that you can fork to quickly try it online without having to download anything: https://replit.com/@pimaj62145/SQLPage

And SQLPage cloud is coming: https://sql.ophir.dev/your-first-sql-website/hosted.sql

Hey HN community!

I'll be making my first ever presentation at a large tech conference at pgconf.eu this December, where I'll be presenting the SQLPage webapp micro-framework ( https://sql.ophir.dev/ ). I'm eager to make a lasting impression and deliver a presentation that truly resonates with the audience at the conference, who probably knows more about postgres than I do.

That's where I could use your insights. What makes a good tech talk in your eyes? Do you like seeing mind-blowing demos, deep dives into code, compelling storytelling, or something else entirely ?

If you have any specific advice, tips, or ideas for structuring a tech conference presentation, I'm all ears. I want to ensure that my presentation is not just informative but also an experience to remember.

Thank you in advance for your guidance and suggestion !

When I see that, I always wonder whether this is part of the business plan of the people who distribute open source software for free, with a paid hosted version. There is some kind of a conflict of interest: the easier the software is to install and operate, the less attractive the hosted version.

I am working on an open-source software with a hosted version myself ( https://sql.ophir.dev ). It's a website builder, and I'm trying to make ease of deployment and operations a competitive advantage, which is marketed on the home page. But it may be idealistic to ask the same of others. My audience is mostly people who will have to operate the software themselves, whereas in most other domains, the people making the choice to use the software and the people who will then have to operate it are not the same.

While this may work for greenfield applications, I don't see this working well for preexisting schemas. From their getting started page: "Database fields are automatically created for any abstract getter methods", which definitely scares me away since they seem to be relying on automatic field type conversions.

I prefer to manage my schemas when I can and do type and DAO conversions via mapper classes in the very simple and elegant JDBI framework where you write SQL annotations above your DAO methods https://jdbi.org/#_declarative_api

JDBI does wonders for wonky old schemas you've inherited, since joins etc work out of the box (just throw them in your annotations!) The annotations can also link to .SQL files for the big hairy queries.

All these "do magic" frameworks (hibernate being one of the first) work in the simple cases but then fall apart whenever you need to do anything complex/not-prescribed. I end up having to dig into the internals of the framework to see what's going wrong which negates their whole value add.

> I've been doing ORM on Java since Hibernate was new, and it has always sucked.

Have you ever looked at something like myBatis? In particular, the XML mappers: https://mybatis.org/mybatis-3/dynamic-sql.html

Looking back, I actually quite liked it - you had conditionals and ability to build queries dynamically (including snippets, doing loops etc.), while still writing mostly SQL with a bit of XML DSL around it, which didn't suck as much as one might imagine. The only problem was that there was still writing some boilerplate, which I wasn't the biggest fan of.

Hibernate always felt like walking across a bridge that might collapse at any moment (one eager fetch away from killing the performance, or having some obscure issue related to the entity mappings), however I liked tooling that let you point towards your database and get a local set of entities mapped automatically, even though codegen also used to have some issues occasionally (e.g. date types).

That said, there's also projects like jOOQ which had a more code centric approach, although I recall it being slightly awkward to use in practice: https://www.jooq.org/ (and the autocomplete killed the performance in some IDEs because of all the possible method signatures)

More recently, when working on a Java project, I opted for JDBI3, which felt reasonably close to what you're describing, at the expense of not being able to build dynamic queries as easily, as it was with myBatis: https://jdbi.org/

That said, with the multi-line string support we have in Java now, it was rather pleasant regardless: https://blog.kronis.dev/tutorials/2-4-pidgeot-a-system-for-m...

I don't think there's a silver bullet out there, everything from lightweight ORMs, to heavy ORMs like Hibernate, or even writing pure SQL has drawbacks. You just have to make the tradeoffs that will see you being successful in your particular project.

I found JDBi[1] to be a really nice balance between ORM and raw SQL. It gives me the flexibility I need but takes care of a lot of the boilerplate. It's almost like a third category.

1. http://jdbi.org

You could use something like jdbi or mybatis. It's not as ugly as raw jdbc and easier to use without all of the gunk from an ORM like hibernate.

We use JDBI. Very simple and lightweight. It uses an object mapper not a full fledged ORM.

Alternatively there are... hybrid solutions like Kotlin's https://github.com/JetBrains/Exposed or https://jdbi.org/ that don't quite... do all the heavy lifting for querying but allow you to sorta stitch queries together manually.

As seems that Micronaut does not include anything similar by default, we use JDBI and that SQL to retrieve one random greeting from the greetings table.

Ah! E sobre o que eu usei no backend, alem de postgres e fly.io, o backend eh eh Java, usando um framework chamado quarkus e jdbi pra fazer a interface com o banco.

More personally, I'm not much an ORM guy. I've just never found that the benefits outweigh the costs, but that's just my opinion. That said, I don't use JDBC directly in my own projects anymore, strongly preferring to use JDBI instead. I find that it walks the line between "make using the database easier" and "get between you and the database" beautifully. But there's not a darn thing wrong with using JDBC directly.