wuffs VS csharplang

Compare wuffs vs csharplang and see what are their differences.

csharplang

The official repo for the design of the C# programming language (by dotnet)
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wuffs csharplang
80 262
3,743 10,868
1.7% 1.3%
9.4 9.6
about 10 hours ago 2 days ago
C C#
GNU General Public License v3.0 or later -
The number of mentions indicates the total number of mentions that we've tracked plus the number of user suggested alternatives.
Stars - the number of stars that a project has on GitHub. Growth - month over month growth in stars.
Activity is a relative number indicating how actively a project is being developed. Recent commits have higher weight than older ones.
For example, an activity of 9.0 indicates that a project is amongst the top 10% of the most actively developed projects that we are tracking.

wuffs

Posts with mentions or reviews of wuffs. We have used some of these posts to build our list of alternatives and similar projects. The last one was on 2024-02-04.
  • Still no love for JPEG XL: Browser maker love-in snubs next-gen image format
    7 projects | news.ycombinator.com | 4 Feb 2024
    Maybe this is what you are looking for:

    https://github.com/google/wuffs

    "Wuffs is a memory-safe programming language (and a standard library written in that language) for Wrangling Untrusted File Formats Safely."

  • 4-year campaign backdoored iPhones using possibly the most advanced exploit
    1 project | news.ycombinator.com | 27 Dec 2023
    It could author its format parsers in https://github.com/google/wuffs, and make them BSD-like open source to maximize adoption.

    An even bigger change: It could allow users to choose their iMessage client freely. Why not open up the protocol? I’m sure a security focused client would be popular and in the grand scheme of things easy to author.

    Perhaps they could open up more of the OS and apps. Perhaps their claims about the security of users and the App Store is kind of BS.

  • Just about every Windows/Linux device vulnerable to new LogoFAIL firmware attack
    4 projects | news.ycombinator.com | 6 Dec 2023
    This is one of the reasons I'm a big fan of wuffs[0] - it specifically targets dealing with formats like pictures, safely, and the result drops in to a C codebase to make the compat/migration story easy.

    [0] https://github.com/google/wuffs

  • Google assigns a CVE for libwebp and gives it a 10.0 score
    5 projects | news.ycombinator.com | 26 Sep 2023
    There are already huffman-decoding and some parts of webp algorithms in https://github.com/google/wuffs (language that finds missing bounds checks during compilations). In contrary, according to readme, this language allows to write more optimized code (compared to C). WEBP decoding is stated as a midterm target in the roadmap.
  • The WebP 0day
    6 projects | news.ycombinator.com | 21 Sep 2023
    Specifically, since performance is crucial for this type of work, it should be written in WUFFS. WUFFS doesn't emit bounds checks (as Java does and as Rust would where it's unclear why something should be in bounds at runtime) it just rejects programs where it can't see why the indexes are in-bounds.

    https://github.com/google/wuffs

    You can explicitly write the same checks and meet this requirement, but chances are since you believe you're producing a high performance piece of software which doesn't need checks you'll instead be pulled up by the fact the WUFFS tooling won't accept your code and discover you got it wrong.

    This is weaker than full blown formal verification, but not for the purpose we care about in program safety, thus a big improvement on humans writing LGTM.

  • What If OpenDocument Used SQLite?
    8 projects | news.ycombinator.com | 18 Sep 2023
    > parsing encoded files tends to introduce vulnerabilities

    If we are talking about binary formats, now there are systematic solutions like https://github.com/google/wuffs that protect against vulnerabilities. But SQLite is not just a format - it's an evolving ecosystem with constantly added features. And the most prominent issue was not even in core, it was in FTS3. What will SQLite add next? More json-related functions? Maybe BSON? It is useful, but does not help in this situation.

    Regarding traces, there are many forensics tools and even books about forensic analysis of SQLite databases. In well-designed format such tools should not exist in the first place. This is hard requirement: if it requires rewriting the whole file - then so be it.

  • CVE-2023-4863: Heap buffer overflow in WebP (Chrome)
    18 projects | news.ycombinator.com | 12 Sep 2023
    I agree that Wuffs [1] would have been a very good alternative! If it can be made more generally. AFAIK Wuffs is still very limited, in particular it never allows dynamic allocation. Many formats, including those supported by Wuffs the library, need dynamic allocation, so Wuffs code has to be glued with unverified non-Wuffs code [2]. This only works with simpler formats.

    [1] https://github.com/google/wuffs/blob/main/doc/wuffs-the-lang...

    [2] https://github.com/google/wuffs/blob/main/doc/note/memory-sa...

  • NSO Group iPhone Zero-Click, Zero-Day Exploit Captured in the Wild
    3 projects | news.ycombinator.com | 7 Sep 2023
    There are efforts to do that, notably https://github.com/google/wuffs

    RLBox is another interesting option that lets you sandbox C/C++ code.

    I think the main reason is that security is one of those things that people don't care about until it is too late to change. They get to the point of having a fast PDF library in C++ that has all the features. Then they realise that they should have written it in a safer language but by that point it means a complete rewrite.

    The same reason not enough people use Bazel. By the time most people realise they need it, you've already implemented a huge build system using Make or whatever.

  • Ask HN: Wuffs Examples for Text Files?
    1 project | news.ycombinator.com | 22 May 2023
    I finally have time to try out wuffs (https://github.com/google/wuffs), which I first heard about here on HN. I want to develop a low-level tokenizer for SDF files, a small-molecule structure file format which started in the 1970s, with lots of, let's call it 'heritage'. Wuffs' ability to process near the data, with a coroutine-like interface, seems like a good fit.

    I got the "hello-wuffs-c" example to work, which took some tinkering (see wuffs issue #24). That reads a single string and returns an unsigned int. Despite looking at the example implementations for json parsing, I can't figure out how to go from that example to something which handles multiple input buffer blocks, with string tokens that might straddle two buffers.

    Nor could I find third-party examples of people using wuffs-the-language beyond basic experimentation for simple binary data. The handful of non-trivial examples I found only used wuffs-the-library, as a vendored component in a larger project.

    The lack of wuffs-the-language use after several years seems a strong sign that I shouldn't look to wuffs for my project. Given the 'workarounds' in #24 are still present after 3 years, it doesn't even seem that widely internally at Google.

    Does anyone here have experience to share, or pointers to related projects?

  • FaaS in Go with WASM, WASI and Rust
    5 projects | news.ycombinator.com | 7 May 2023
    Here's an off-topic answer.

    Depends on what you want your toy language to do and what sort of runtime support you'd like to lean on.

    JVM is pretty good for a lot of script-y languages, does impose overhead of having a JVM around. Provides GC, Threads, Reflection, consistent semantics. Tons of tools, libraries, support.

    WebAssembly is constrained (for running-in-a-browser safety reasons) but then you get to run your code in a browser, or as a service, etc, and Other People are working hard on the problem of getting your WA to go fast. That used to be a big reason for using JVM, but it turns out that Security Is Darn Hard.

    I have used C in the (distant) past as an IL, and that works up to a point, implementing garbage collection can be a pain if that's a thing that you want. C compilers have had a lot of work on them over the years, and you also have access to some low-level stuff, so if you were E.G. trying to come up with a little language that had super-good performance, C might be a good choice. (See also, [Wuffs](https://github.com/google/wuffs), by Nigel Tao et al at Google).

    A suggestion, if you do target C -- don't work too hard to find isomorphisms between C's data structures and YourToyLang's data structures. Back around 1990, I did my C-generating compiler for Modula-3, and a friend at Xerox PARC used C as a target for Cedar Mesa, and Hans used it in a lower-level way (so I was mapping between M-3 records and C structs, for example, Hans was not) and the lower-level way worked better -- i.e., I chose poorly. It worked, but lower-level worked better.

    If you are targeting a higher-level language, Rust and Go both seem like interesting options to me. Both have the disadvantage that they are still changing slightly but you get interesting "services" from the underlying VM -- for Rust, the borrow checker, plus libraries, for Go, reflection, goroutines, and the GC, plus libraries.

    Rust should get you slightly higher performance, but I'd worry that you couldn't hide the existence of the borrow checker from your toy language, especially if you wanted to interact with Rust libraries from YTL. If you wanted to learn something vaguely publishable/wider-interesting, that question right there ("can I compile a TL to Rust, touch the Rust libraries, and not expose the borrow checker? No+what-I-tried/Yes+this-worked") is not bad.

    I have a minor conflict of interest suggesting Go; I work on Go, usually on the compiler, and machine-generated code makes great test data. But regarded as a VM, I am a little puzzled why it hasn't seen wider use, because the GC is great (for lower-allocation rates than Java however; JVM GC has higher throughout efficiency, but Go has tagless objects, interior pointer support, and tiny pause times. Go-the-language makes it pretty easy to allocate less.) Things Go-as-a-VM currently lacks:

    - tail call elimination (JVM same)

csharplang

Posts with mentions or reviews of csharplang. We have used some of these posts to build our list of alternatives and similar projects. The last one was on 2024-02-05.
  • Discriminated Unions: Essa feature faz falta no CSharp
    2 projects | dev.to | 5 Feb 2024
  • DevDocs
    19 projects | news.ycombinator.com | 12 Jan 2024
    Certain parts of Microsoft Learn are permissive, for example the .NET BCL documentation is Creative Commons Attribution: https://github.com/dotnet/dotnet-api-docs as is ASP.NET Core: https://github.com/dotnet/AspNetCore.Docs (a good hint if documentation is permissively licensed and on GitHub is if there's an edit button at the top.)

    The C# language specification is unfortunately a bit fuzzier: https://github.com/dotnet/csharplang/discussions/4855

    The updated unified C# language specification is CC, but it's still catching up to modern C#: https://github.com/dotnet/csharpstandard

  • The golden age of Kotlin and its uncertain future
    4 projects | news.ycombinator.com | 11 Jan 2024
    No OP, but for example you still see the C# folks still struggling to add discriminated unions to the language because of complex interactions due to its too many features[1]. Virtual threads are easier to use than async/await is another example.

    [1] https://github.com/dotnet/csharplang/issues/113

  • When static types make your code shorter
    1 project | /r/programming | 5 Dec 2023
    For example, C# had a research fork called Spec# that had compile-time support for contracts, with keywords such as requires (for arguments) and ensures (for return values), all the way back in 2004. While still being discussed, it doesn't seem to be shipping any time soon.
  • .NET 8 – .NET Blog
    12 projects | news.ycombinator.com | 14 Nov 2023
    Hi there. I'm the language designer who created the 'Collection Expression' design/specification: https://github.com/dotnet/csharplang/issues/5354

    You can see the entire history of the proposal there. To answer you specific question, we went with `..` because that's what the language already uses for the complimentary 'pattern matching deconstruction' form for collection patterns.

    In other words, you can already say this today:

        if (x is [var start, .. var middle, .. var end]) { ... }
  • What's new in C# 12: overview
    4 projects | news.ycombinator.com | 20 Oct 2023
    You must specify concrete type.

    There was a plan to have "natural type" so "var list = [1,2,3]" would be of type "List" but it was postponed to C# 13 (https://github.com/dotnet/csharplang/issues/5354#issuecommen...)

  • Robust Design through Value Objects in C#
    2 projects | dev.to | 18 Sep 2023
    While C# currently lacks direct support for this kind of functionality, there's a glimmer of hope with an active proposal under discussion that aims to bring this feature to the language. This potential addition promises a future where C# can natively offer similar robust type narrowing.
  • The combined power of F# and C#
    10 projects | news.ycombinator.com | 7 Aug 2023
    Given few people anticipated ValueTuple and C# adding a more direct tuple syntax, I feel like it is only a matter of time before C# adds discriminated unions.

    (There are multiple proposals tracking the idea. This seems the most comprehensive and "central": https://github.com/dotnet/csharplang/issues/7016)

  • Should i quit Django and move to asp.net
    1 project | /r/dotnet | 14 Jul 2023
    I always liked list abbreviations in python, but I absolutely love Linq. I believe there is a feature proposal for C# 12, which makes collection initialization better imo.
  • Can constructor parameter assignment be made less verbose?
    1 project | /r/dotnet | 27 Jun 2023

What are some alternatives?

When comparing wuffs and csharplang you can also consider the following projects:

png-decoder - A pure-Rust, no_std compatible PNG decoder

language-ext - C# functional language extensions - a base class library for functional programming

stb - stb single-file public domain libraries for C/C++

jOOQ - jOOQ is the best way to write SQL in Java

image-png - PNG decoding and encoding library in pure Rust

SharpLab - .NET language playground

highway - Performance-portable, length-agnostic SIMD with runtime dispatch

SQLDelight - SQLDelight - Generates typesafe Kotlin APIs from SQL

kandria - A post-apocalyptic actionRPG. Now on Steam!

runtimelab - This repo is for experimentation and exploring new ideas that may or may not make it into the main dotnet/runtime repo.

rust - Rust for the xtensa architecture. Built in targets for the ESP32 and ESP8266

.NET Runtime - .NET is a cross-platform runtime for cloud, mobile, desktop, and IoT apps.