tusker VS Zulip

Thanks! Yeah definitely agree that building out declarative table management for Postgres would be a major effort. A few open source projects I've seen in that area include:

https://github.com/sqldef/sqldef (Go)

https://github.com/bikeshedder/tusker (Python but being ported to Rust)

https://github.com/tyrchen/renovate (Rust)

https://github.com/blainehansen/postgres_migrator (Rust)

Some of these are based on parsing SQL, and others are based on running the CREATEs in a temporary location and introspecting the result.

The schema export side can be especially tricky for Postgres, since it lacks a built-in equivalent to MySQL's SHOW CREATE TABLE. So most of these declarative pg tools shell out to pg_dump, or require the user to do so. But sqldef actually implements CREATE TABLE dumping in pure Golang if I recall correctly, which is pretty cool.

There's also the question of implementing the table diff logic from scratch, vs shelling out to another tool or using a library. For the latter path, there's a nice blog post from Supabase about how they evaluated the various options: https://supabase.com/blog/supabase-cli#choosing-the-best-dif...

Big fan of tusker (https://github.com/bikeshedder/tusker) for PostgreSQL migrations. Tusker takes a SQL-first approach; You write your schema in declarative DDL (I have my entire project in one schema.sql file) and when you edit it, tusker generates the sql code required to migrate. It uses temporary test databases to run both your declarative DDL and your step-by-step migrations to ensure they are in lock step. And it can connect to live databases and diff your schema/migrations against reality. I've never seen a better toolkit for schema evolution.

Forr postgres, how does the schema diffing aspect compare to migra?

https://github.com/djrobstep/migra

I'm asking because, although migra is excellent and there are multiple migrations tools based on it (at least https://github.com/bikeshedder/tusker and https://github.com/blainehansen/postgres_migrator), issues are piling up but development seem to be slowing down

Is this similar to migra? There's a tool written in Rust that calls it, postgres_migrator (there's also tusker)

The best solution I've ever seen is this Rust library https://github.com/cornucopia-rs/cornucopia

You write plain SQL for you schema (just a schema.sql is enough) and plain SQL functions for your queries. Then it generates Rust types and Rust functions from from that. If you don't use Rust, maybe there's a library like that for your favorite language.

Optionally, pair it with https://github.com/bikeshedder/tusker or https://github.com/blainehansen/postgres_migrator (both are based off https://github.com/djrobstep/migra) to generate migrations by diffing your schema.sql files, and https://github.com/rust-db/refinery to perform those migrations.

Now, if you have simple crud needs, you should probably use https://postgrest.org/en/stable/ and not an ORM. There are packages like https://www.npmjs.com/package/@supabase/postgrest-js (for JS / typescript) and probably for other languages too.

If you insist on an ORM, the best of the bunch is prisma https://www.prisma.io/ - outside of the typescript/javascript ecosystem it has ports for some other languages (with varying degrees of completion), the one I know about is the Rust one https://prisma.brendonovich.dev/introduction

> Tusker actually uses Migra to power its functionality: https://github.com/bikeshedder/tusker#how-does-it-Work

What a twist! Might we ask what field you work in? Seems niche

Zulip — Real-time chat with a unique email-like threading model. The free plan includes 10,000 messages of search history and File storage up to 5 GB. also, it provides a self-hostable open-source version.

(1) Zulip Chat - https://zulip.com/ - seems to be reasonably popular, but more people should know about it

I’ve been using it for over 5 years now [1], and it’s as good as ever. It’s way faster than any other chat app I’ve used. It has a good UI and conversation model. It has a simple and functional API that lets me curl threads and write blog posts based on them.

(only problem is that I Ctrl-+ in my browser to make the font bigger – I think it’s too dense for most people)

(2) re2c regex to state machine compiler - https://re2c.org

A gem from the 90’s, which people have done a great job maintaining and improving (getting Go and Rust target support in the last few years). I started using it in 2016, and used for a new program a few months ago. I came to the conclusion that it should have been built into C, because C has shitty string processing – and Ken Thompson both invented C AND brought regular languages to computing !!

In comparison, treesitter lexers are very low level, fiddly, and error prone. I recently saw dozens of ad hoc fixes to the tree-sitter-bash lexer, which is unsurprising if you look at the structure of the code (manually crawling through backslashes and braces in C).

https://github.com/tree-sitter/tree-sitter-bash/blob/master/...

These fixes are definitely appreciated, but I think it indicates a problem with the model itself.

(based on https://lobste.rs/s/endspx/software_you_are_thankful_for#c_y...)

[1] https://www.oilshell.org/blog/2018/04/26.html

A few more truly in the vibe of open source projects not advertising their hosting providers: https://plane.so/ , https://element.io/ , https://www.loomio.com/ , https://zulip.com/ , and it keeps going... Very few open source projects, in the FOSS sense, are advertising their hosting provider.

I was so excited to see this happen!

I'm not a customer of yours, but your blog posts inspired me a lot. Your journey through quitting caffeine is a great and heartening read.

I've got two things to say;

1) Will you consider source-availabling the web portal (app.keygen.sh) too? Some enterprises could use it for easy management/support for custoner's licenses. Although now that I think about it, it could also discourage custom, more suitable implementations for each use-case... I'm torn on this one. I would like to see it available on GitHub too just out of curiosity too. It's very beautiful.

2) For a team + customers' chat, I cannot recommend Zulip enough. It's a joy to use and has the most innovative chat system I've ever seen. https://zulip.com

I hope your business keeps prospering!

Zulip | Senior Flutter Engineer | REMOTE or San Francisco | Full-time | https://zulip.com/

At Zulip, we’re out to build the world’s best collaboration platform, and we’re committed to keeping it 100% open source. Zulip is the only modern team chat app that is designed for both live and asynchronous conversations. Our product serves as the communication hub for businesses, open-source projects, educators and communities around the world.

We're building the next generation of Zulip's mobile apps in Flutter. We're looking for a senior engineer with Flutter experience to join our small core team and help define the future of team chat. Our Flutter prototype is just a few months old, so this is a greenfield opportunity to help shape the app's architecture from early on.

For full details, check out https://zulip.com/jobs/. Apply at [email protected].

Anyways, I'm an internet stranger, not a social media expert. So let me know what you all think. And if we make a discord or zulip or something to make this a reality, let me know and I'd love to help any way I can.