samsara VS embassy

> IME it's the other way around, per-object individual lifetimes is a rare special case

It depends on your application domain. But in most cases where objects have "individual lifetimes" you can still use reference counting, which has lower latency and memory overhead than tracing GC and interacts well with manual memory management. Tracing GC can then be "plugged in" for very specific cases, preferably using a high performance concurrent implementation much like https://github.com/chc4/samsara (for Rust) or https://github.com/pebal/sgcl (for C++).

> Just for example: "it needs a GC" could be the heart of such an argument

Rust can actually support high-performance concurrent GC, see https://github.com/chc4/samsara for an experimental implementation. But unlike other languages it gives you the option of not using it.

The compiler support you need is quite limited. Here's an implementation of cycle collection in Rust: https://github.com/chc4/samsara It's made possible because Rust can tell apart read-only and read-write references (except for interior mutable objects, but these are known to the compiler and references to them can be treated as read-write). This avoids a global stop-the-world for the entire program.

Cascading deletes are rare in practice, and if anything they are inherent to deterministic deletion, which is often a desirable property. When they're possible, one can often use arena allocation to avoid the issue altogether, since arenas are managed as a single object.

There are concurrent GC implementations for Rust, e.g. Samsara https://redvice.org/2023/samsara-garbage-collector/ https://github.com/chc4/samsara that avoid blocking, except to a minimal extent in rare cases of contention. That fits pretty well with the pattern of "doing a bit of GC every frame".

There are a number of efforts along these lines, the most interesting is probably Samsara https://github.com/chc4/samsara https://redvice.org/2023/samsara-garbage-collector/ which implements a concurrent, thread-safe GC with no global "stop the world" phase.

Nice blog post! I also wrote a concurrent reference counted cycle collector in Rust (https://github.com/chc4/samsara) though never published it to crates.io. It's neat to see the different choices that people made implementing similar goals, and dumpster works pretty differently from how I did it. I hit the same problems wrt concurrent mutation of the graph when trying to count in-degree of nodes, or adding references during a collection - I didn't even think of doing generational references and just have a RwLock...

thanks. looked that up. for the curious: https://embassy.dev/

Running the Embassy RP2040 USB CDC ACM serial example takes about 5 seconds on a Pico.

https://github.com/embassy-rs/embassy/blob/main/examples/rp/...

Async solves different problems, you can, for instance, have just a single-threaded CPU and still have a nice API if you have async-await. It might not be so cool at a higher level as Go's approach of channels and threads, but it's cool in embedded, read this:

https://github.com/embassy-rs/embassy?tab=readme-ov-file#rus...

"Rust's async/await allows for unprecedently easy and efficient multitasking in embedded systems. Tasks get transformed at compile time into state machines that get run cooperatively. It requires no dynamic memory allocation, and runs on a single stack, so no per-task stack size tuning is required. It obsoletes the need for a traditional RTOS with kernel context switching, and is faster and smaller than one!"

I'm just toying with Raspberry Pi Pico and it's pretty nice.

Go and Rust have different use cases, the async-await is nice at a low level.

I have not yet dipped by toes in the Rust waters, but reading about the embassy project is actually what piqued my curiosity about using C++ coroutines in embedded. Are you familiar with the project or have you found it lacking?

I think I get the basics (shoutout to the Rust Embedded Working Group!), and I've started looking for the stack I'd be using. I think Embassy is really amazing, as well as the work of the ESP team -- hats off.

> }

And this is how to do it using embassy, which is an async framework for embedded in rust:

https://github.com/embassy-rs/embassy/blob/main/examples/rp/...

> not good for embedded

embassy begs to differ

https://embassy.dev/

async/await is really just a syntax for building state machines in a way that resembles regular code. It's compiled down to the same code that you would write by hand anyway (early on it had some bloat in state size but I think it's all fixed now).

And embedded has a lot of state machines!

You can run multiple executors at different interrupt priority levels (with multiple tasks per executor), which allows tasks on the higher priority executor to interrupt other tasks. Here's an example https://github.com/embassy-rs/embassy/blob/main/examples/nrf...