readyset VS noria

- Some platforms like Supabase Realtime [3] and Firebase offer subscription models to database changes, but these solutions fall short when dealing with complex queries involving joins or group-bys.

My vision is that the modern frontend to behave like a series of materialized views that dynamically update as the underlying data changes. Current state management libraries handle state trees well but don't seamlessly integrate with relational or graph-like database structures.

The only thing I can think of is to implement it by myself, which sounds like a big PITA.

Anything goes, Brainstorm with me. Is it causing you headaches as well? Are you familiar with an efficient solution? how are you all tackling it?

[1] https://readyset.io/

Postgresql + MySQL Cache https://github.com/readysettech/readyset

I just wanted to give a high five for having Jepsen tests for this: https://github.com/readysettech/readyset/tree/stable-240117/...

This example is a great use case for partial incremental view maintenance systems like ReadySet: you automatically get something like the “prepopulating the cache” section (toward the end of the blog) while only caching the data the application is using, and avoiding the need to manually implement any sort of invalidation logic.

(Disclaimer: I used to work for them, but don’t anymore. It’s all available for free on GitHub though for anyone interested: https://github.com/readysettech/readyset)

There are systems that will do that for you like https://readyset.io/.

ReadySet

readyset.io is the company that jonhoo was associated with for work on noria

Might be interesting to try out https://readyset.io for this use case.

On the caching topic, I found the ReadySet(né Noria) approach to be extremely interesting.

> Automatically managed, application-transparent, physical denormalisation entirely managed by the database is something I am very, very interested in.

Sounds a bit like Noria: https://github.com/mit-pdos/noria

It feels more than a little bit coincidental to call it Noria when https://github.com/mit-pdos/noria exists (and has been posted about here on HN)... especially with the whole bit about incrementally computing changes.

Is this similar in spirit to Noria?

https://github.com/mit-pdos/noria

I assume you have studied Noria? https://github.com/mit-pdos/noria

If you want to look how databases are implemented in rust try https://github.com/mit-pdos/noria

Only tangentially related, but I wondered what were the difference between ReadySet and Noria, and they address this exact question in their repository I'm really glad to know that the ideas behind Noria didn't die when Noria was abandoned after /u/jonhoo graduated.

:wave: Author of the paper this work is based on here.

I'm so excited to see dynamic, partially-stateful data-flow for incremental materialized view maintenance becoming more wide-spread! I continue to think it's a _great_ idea, and the speed-ups (and complexity reduction) it can yield are pretty immense, so seeing more folks building on the idea makes me very happy.

The PlanetScale blog post references my original "Noria" OSDI paper (https://pdos.csail.mit.edu/papers/noria:osdi18.pdf), but I'd actually recommend my PhD thesis instead (https://jon.thesquareplanet.com/papers/phd-thesis.pdf), as it goes much deeper about some of the technical challenges and solutions involved. It also has a chapter (Appendix A) that covers how it all works by analogy, which the less-technical among the audience may appreciate :) A recording of my thesis defense on this, which may be more digestible than the thesis itself, is also online at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GctxvSPIfr8, as well as a shorter talk from a few years earlier at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s19G6n0UjsM. And the Noria research prototype (written in Rust) is on GitHub: https://github.com/mit-pdos/noria.

As others have already mentioned in the comments, I co-founded ReadySet (https://readyset.io/) shortly after graduating specifically to build off of Noria, and they're doing amazing work to provide these kinds of speed-ups for general-purpose relational databases. If you're using one of those, it's worth giving ReadySet a look to get these kinds of speedups there! It's also source-available @ https://github.com/readysettech/readyset if you're curious.

It seems similar to MIT's Noria [1]

> Noria is a new streaming data-flow system designed to act as a fast storage backend for read-heavy web applications based on Jon Gjengset's Phd Thesis, as well as this paper from OSDI'18. It acts like a database, but precomputes and caches relational query results so that reads are blazingly fast. Noria automatically keeps cached results up-to-date as the underlying data, stored in persistent base tables, change. Noria uses partially-stateful data-flow to reduce memory overhead, and supports dynamic, runtime data-flow and query change.

[1] https://github.com/mit-pdos/noria

Materialize is really neat, also checkout https://github.com/mit-pdos/noria. It inverts the query problem and processes the data on insert. Exactly like what most applications end up doing using a no-sql solution.