pyyaml VS edn

PyYAML knew about the breakage since january 2022[0], and nothing really happened. After a year and a half with lots of alphas and betas, I don't think there is much cython could do, short of fixing PyYAML themselves.

[0]: https://github.com/yaml/pyyaml/issues/601

They did finally change the default, in PyYAML 6, after many many bugs pointing out that their previous approach is broken (including one by yours truly), so the default is now safe.

Note some parsers, most notably pyyaml are still at yaml 1.1, because 13 years is just not enough time to update it.

That part of the YAML 1.2 spec is in conflict with reality, though. The base of YAML 1.1 documents is large enough that a backwards-incompatible change to default behavior is for practical purposes impossible.

YAML 1.1 was released in 2005, and 1.2 in 2009 -- only four years later. But here we are, in 2022, and YAML 1.1 is still the default (in many cases, only) version supported. That's why the "Norway problem" persists -- it's not possible for the parser to know whether an un-versioned YAML document containing "a: no" should parse the same as {"a": false} or {"a": "no"}.

Python (PyYAML) doesn't support 1.2 yet: https://github.com/yaml/pyyaml/issues/116

Ruby (Psych) ditto -- I can't even find a tracking issue to enable it.

Go (go-yaml) is a mixture of YAML 1.1 and 1.2, depending on the author's preferences.

Also, as a rough guideline, you can't have a backwards-incompatible revision of a versioned spec declare that it's the new default version, because that breaks all existing users.

Many parsers either default to YAML pre-1.2 or do not even expose a YAML 1.2 option. PyYAML has no 1.2 option, for example. So unless Ansible is using something other than PyYAML...

Relevant (open) PR: https://github.com/yaml/pyyaml/pull/555

Are you perhaps talking about decimal.Decimal? https://github.com/yaml/pyyaml/issues/255

> was utterly surprised how no one ever apparently has thought to create a configuration/templating system that's basically a fancy library on top of Scheme.

There's Clojure's extensible data notation: https://github.com/edn-format/edn

A thin language layer around edn/datalog, the query language

EDN (Extensible Data Notation) is a subset of Clojure: https://github.com/edn-format/edn

It is:

- Streamable

- Extensible

- Whitespace-insensitive, but there are formatting conventions for readability

To begin with, EDN is somewhat like the JSON of Clojure. And regarding the code is data/data is code nature of Clojure, it is Clojure. It doesn't have some of the vagaries of JSON, and it is also extensible.

Alien is not a reason something is bad, just that's it's unusual. JSON was a bit alien when it first arrived as well, as everyone was used to XML at the time.

`{num 5, val 4}` looks fine to me, but we can do even better! We already know objects/maps are always in pairs, so we don't really need that comma either. Just do `{num 5 val 4}` and we save yet another unnecessary characters.

Of course, I didn't come up with this format myself, what I actually want JSON to be is EDN (https://github.com/edn-format/edn) which is a standalone format but also directly used in Clojure, so it already exists inside a programming language and works very well. There keys are strings though, so you example would end up being `{"num" 5 "val" 5 "person" var}`, where commas are optional.

I just checked out the spec, and it gets pretty ugly in the Table section. A lot of the json examples are both shorter and IMO more precise. Stuff that’s not allowed with [table] is allowed with [[table]], and it’s confusing to understand what level of depth I’m at.

I’ll take edn over any of “em. https://github.com/edn-format/edn

As XT is written in Clojure and it natively supports Clojure’s data types, we were not satisfied with available JSON types and decided to give EDN a try - that way we would have way more supported types:

Compare the nightmare that is pickling with how simple it is to serialize pure data with edn in clojure. What ends up happening is people passing around JSONs or whatever and writing parsing/encoding code at each end, which makes things unnecessarily more complex, and dangerous, and error prone, and boring, etc...