pure-data VS glicol

Report bugs on the pd github https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data

You might be interested in clicking through the puredata source code.

https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data

> The other advantage is because these things were implemented in the 80s

Pd was developed in the mid 90s

> they are very computationally efficient

Not as efficient as it could be, though. For example, instead of proper SIMD instructions, the DSP perform routines only use manual loop unrolling, praying that the compiler will auto-vectorize it.

Finally, everything is single-threaded, leaving lots of performance on the table. FWIW, I have a PR for an asynchronous task API (https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/1357) and also a branch for multi-threaded DSP (https://github.com/Spacechild1/pure-data/tree/multi-threadin...).

> Any criticism or unwelcome suggestions are treated as an insult to Miller Puckette and the proponent is attacked, ignored, or advised to implement it themselves (ie to go away and not come back).

I don't think this holds for the general case, but there a certainly a few users caught up in Stockholm Syndrome :-) I can assure you that the developer team (which I am a part of) is very well aware of Pd's limitations and problems. Pd has seen quite significant UX improvements over the last few years, but the pace of development is very slow. Anyway, if you have specific criticism, suggestions or feature requests, feel free to open a ticket on GitHub: https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data.

As a side note, the minimalistic GUI itself won't change since it is an intentional design decision by Miller, but there is some effort to abstract the core/GUI communication to allow alternative GUI implementations. (Personally, I really dislike the current Tcl/Tk GUI - not because it's minimalistic, but because it's slow and buggy.)

> and idiosyncratic terminology (eg PD refers to module connectors as 'patch cords' just like on an analog modular synthesizer or mixer, but what synth people commonly call a pulse or a trigger is a 'bang' in PD).

Pd's 'bang' belongs to the control/event domain, you can't really compare it to trigger/pulse in modular synthesizers. (FWIW, there are several Pd externals that implement audio-rate triggers.)

> You can make it do anything, but unless you already have a very specific goals you will spend most of the time reinventing wheels in parameter space.

That's a fair point. It's important for people to understand that Pd vanilla is really a programming environment with only a minimal set of built-in objects that allow you to build higher-level abstractions. You definitely need a set of "abstractions" or libraries to be productive. Fortunately, there are many existing Pd libraries and they can be easily installed with Pd's package manager "Deken". The most extensive one is "ELSE" with nearly 500 objects, containing everything from band-limited ocillators, filters, sequencers, GUIs, etc. Personally, I have my own collection of abstractions that I made over the last years.

That being said, I would agree that you should always pick the right tool for the job. Just as you wouldn't write your website in C, you wouldn't pick Pd for typical EDM stuff (unless you have a very good reason). But for prototyping and experimental electronics it's a fantastic tool, I think.

I've worked on Ambient Engine and now on the Bevy engine. I totally agree with these points, very valuable. I only make some comments from my professional (audio) perspective:

We need the highlight author's affirmation of cli. Rust's tui (ratatui) is great. I used it to make Glicol-cli [1]. If you are a Linux user, you are welcome to test the music production of the code.

Speaking of game audio, I actually think rust is perfect for audio. I have also continued to develop Glicol recently, and my recent goal (starting tomorrow) is the bevy_glicol plug-in. I want to solve bevy's audio problem on the browser.

All in all, even though I've had my share of pain with ecs, I still think rust is very valuable for game and app development, maybe not multiplayer AAA, maybe practical apps.

[1] https://github.com/glicol/glicol-cli

[2] https://github.com/chaosprint/glicol

Nice! Great project website styling and demo.

I had a WebGPU scope demo using vanila JS here, but it's not connected to AudioContext at all.

https://stackblitz.com/edit/vitejs-vite-cuc9vs

Still, I had to use the old WebGL solution for https://glicol.org since the WebGPU support seems to be pretty slow at the moment.

Suno is great and I already shared its potential back in v2. I have always believed that the essence of digital music is "organized numbers". I think what needs to be thought about is how to use AI in this process. If you look at the results (numbers) generated, then we are indeed very close. But there is another future I believe: I hope AI can compose music with me, like copilot. This is why I keep working on

https://glicol.org/

and the destination is:

https://github.com/chaosprint/RaveForce

Also want to hear your feedback.

Interesting!

Similar note-based expression can be found on TidalCycles/Strudel. although it's not valid MIDI format anymore, you can use notation like c4, f3, and make them as "pattern". Samples are also supported in the same manner:

https://strudel.cc/

And in my project Glicol, I use only numbers in the seq node. So 60 means middle C. Underscore means rest.

https://glicol.org/

I also applied with Glicol (https://glicol.org/) and got rejected, which is totally understandable. I am basically working this project on my own with almost zero extra funding.

I am currently working on a new website. The old stack is Vite, Svelte and Windi CSS (discontinued unfortunately). So this time maybe Astro + Solid + Tailwind.

And I am also trying to rewrite the whole Rust backend if possible, so there is quite some work to be done.

Let me know on GH or Discord if you are interested.

It's a good chance to try Rust, WASM, DSP, etc.

This is a really informative and inspiring article.

It hasn’t been 6 months (not 6 years) since I quit my full-time job as a Rust developer to start my own business.

As time goes by, I can feel the pressure of mortgage and car loans, and I can also feel the care and pressure of my family.

My original plan was to make an interface for Glicol (https://glicol.org), and to develop relevant hardware with firmware written in rust for school education.

I sent some cold emails to VCs, but most of them got no reply.

I also sent an email to the Norwegian Museum of Science and Technology, offering to perform for children for free, but they didn’t reply for two months. I shamelessly sent it again, and someone finally replied with a rejection.

Only one VC talked to me and thought that I should convince and validate a partner first, and he suggested that I go to an incubator.

Very good advice.

Later I learned that even Norwegian education startups skipped Norway and focused directly on the US market.

People from the incubator also told me that it is impossible for Norwegian schools to accept new things independently.

This is very enlightening to me because most of Glicol's visitors are indeed from the US. And it took me so long to discover this fact.

But if I don’t start, I’ll never get past those six months.

I picked up LOGO when I was 6 and leant Pascal and C later.

I didn't program for a few years because I wasn't interested in competitions. So I think interest is the most important, otherwise it will be easy to get lost and give up.

Later, I became very interested in programming, mainly because I came into contact with music technology.

I think since your child is interested in game development, it is a good choice to start step by step. For example, starting with threejs. I also recommend learning Rust and Bevy so you learn the underlying layers and ECS.

Last but not least, although it's not related to games dev but I sincerely invite you and your son to try Glicol (https://glicol.org), the project that I am developing.

I quite my job as well to work on

https://glicol.org

I have a lot of feelings, but I don't have a blog so far. But one of my feelings is that universities should alloc some of their funding to many of these open source projects and open source community should be better managed rather than donation. My plan is to start my own company and work on hardware .