postgres VS slonik

I want to use this as a chance to bring attention to a GitHub issue that I think would help reduce friction for Neon:

https://github.com/neondatabase/neon/issues/4989

If the Neon driver were to allow us to easily pass in a localhost connection, the development and test experience would be easier. Perhaps Neon could swap to something like this internally: https://github.com/porsager/postgres.

Having run a local dev environment connected to Neon and tests connected to Neon got in our way of adoption. We'd prefer to develop and run tests against a regular Postgres localhost database.

To the PMs of Neon, put yourself in the shoes of a new developer thinking of giving Neon a try. What changes will I have to make to my code and my development workflow?

I'd push you to consider using postgres, slonik or similar for database queries. With these libraries, you just write SQL, but they perform input sanitization for you. So you can safely write:

Thanks Pier! Your comment saved me some frustration here :-D

https://github.com/porsager/postgres/discussions/627#discuss...

There's a core client interface here:

- https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/client-interfaces.ht...

On what makes it postgres.js faster, from author himself:

> it seems Postgres.js is actually faster than, not only pg, but of any driver out-there

- https://github.com/porsager/postgres/discussions/627

- https://porsager.github.io/imdbench/sql.html

When viewed as a DSL for set theory, views, CTEs, set-returning functions, et al are indeed proper first-class query abstractions.

When viewed through the lens of general purpose imperative or functional programming languages, it's easy to see how it can be seen as falling short.

I'll admit much of the tooling and driver APIs leave a lot to be desired.

Some tools do make good efforts though such as nested fragments in this driver.

https://github.com/porsager/postgres#building-queries

I don't think this should turn in to an ORM or not debate, but there are plenty of reasons, especially for the crowd that would do anything to avoid ORMs. Just try to take a peek into the multitude of "ORMs are bad" articles / discussions.

For instance - I would love to be able to use https://github.com/porsager/postgres with sqlite.

Demonstrate how easily and accidentally one can make an SQL injection with these:

https://github.com/porsager/postgres

https://github.com/gajus/slonik

They've looked at Postgres.js (https://github.com/porsager/postgres) before — wouldn't mind if they enabled those other cases in the same way.

And sometimes invest instead in learning a technology rather than hide it: for example slonik encourages you to write normal SQL queries by making SQL templating easier and safer. In turn, your IDE would be able to understand those queries and give you support based on the database schemas you actually have.

I'd push you to consider using postgres, slonik or similar for database queries. With these libraries, you just write SQL, but they perform input sanitization for you. So you can safely write:

You can already use postgres with Slonik.

https://github.com/gajus/slonik#user-content-slonik-how-are-...

It is not going to be the default because it is way slower.

https://github.com/gajus/slonik/actions/runs/6616647651

Test node_version:18 test_only:postgres-integration is taking 3 minutes.

Test node_version:18 test_only:pg-integration is taking 38 seconds.

For those uninitiated, Slonik is a battle-tested SQL query building and execution library for Node.js. Its primary goal is to allow you to write and compose SQL queries in a safe and convenient way. Now, let's see how it pairs with Express.js.

I am the maintainer of Slonik and I am trying to understand what portion of this sub-users are using Slonik vs other libraries, and if they are using anything else – what are their reasons for it.

It's nice that they implemented string templates essentially exactly the same way Javascript template literals and tag functions work. They even give an example of using it to create a prepared statement (e.g. DB."SELECT * FROM foo WHERE bar = \{inputParam}") which is exactly what many NodeJS libraries due, e.g. Slonik https://github.com/gajus/slonik, like sql`SELECT * FROM foo WHERE bar = ${inputParam}`;

I've found libraries like Zod useful when interacting with external data sources like a database. Slonik[1] uses Zod to define the types expected from a SQL query and then performs runtime validation on the data to ensure that the query is yielding the expected type.

I don't think it's necessary to use Zod/runtime validation everywhere, but it's a nice tool to have on hand.

[1]https://github.com/gajus/slonik

Demonstrate how easily and accidentally one can make an SQL injection with these:

https://github.com/porsager/postgres

https://github.com/gajus/slonik

Have you tried Slonik (https://github.com/gajus/slonik)? It won't generate types from queries automatically, but it encourages writing SQL vs. a query builder and allows type annotations of queries with Zod. Query results are validated at runtime to ensure the queries are typed correctly.