postgres VS PostgreSQL

I want to use this as a chance to bring attention to a GitHub issue that I think would help reduce friction for Neon:

https://github.com/neondatabase/neon/issues/4989

If the Neon driver were to allow us to easily pass in a localhost connection, the development and test experience would be easier. Perhaps Neon could swap to something like this internally: https://github.com/porsager/postgres.

Having run a local dev environment connected to Neon and tests connected to Neon got in our way of adoption. We'd prefer to develop and run tests against a regular Postgres localhost database.

To the PMs of Neon, put yourself in the shoes of a new developer thinking of giving Neon a try. What changes will I have to make to my code and my development workflow?

I'd push you to consider using postgres, slonik or similar for database queries. With these libraries, you just write SQL, but they perform input sanitization for you. So you can safely write:

Thanks Pier! Your comment saved me some frustration here :-D

https://github.com/porsager/postgres/discussions/627#discuss...

There's a core client interface here:

- https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/client-interfaces.ht...

On what makes it postgres.js faster, from author himself:

> it seems Postgres.js is actually faster than, not only pg, but of any driver out-there

- https://github.com/porsager/postgres/discussions/627

- https://porsager.github.io/imdbench/sql.html

When viewed as a DSL for set theory, views, CTEs, set-returning functions, et al are indeed proper first-class query abstractions.

When viewed through the lens of general purpose imperative or functional programming languages, it's easy to see how it can be seen as falling short.

I'll admit much of the tooling and driver APIs leave a lot to be desired.

Some tools do make good efforts though such as nested fragments in this driver.

https://github.com/porsager/postgres#building-queries

I don't think this should turn in to an ORM or not debate, but there are plenty of reasons, especially for the crowd that would do anything to avoid ORMs. Just try to take a peek into the multitude of "ORMs are bad" articles / discussions.

For instance - I would love to be able to use https://github.com/porsager/postgres with sqlite.

Demonstrate how easily and accidentally one can make an SQL injection with these:

https://github.com/porsager/postgres

https://github.com/gajus/slonik

They've looked at Postgres.js (https://github.com/porsager/postgres) before — wouldn't mind if they enabled those other cases in the same way.

pg doesn't do too well with serverless, dead connections are left in the pool (or something)

https://github.com/brianc/node-postgres/issues/2112

If you don't want to use ORM then there are some other packages as well! For PostgreSQL we have node-postgres

Interface with PostgreSQL database

(Instead of the following with pg.)

So far every JS framework that uses https://node-postgres.com works great and so no reason to think Drizzle wouldn't.

One thing that keeps coming up is that SQL equals low productivity. I don't think this is true. I think the culprit is that most developers are using to heavily abstracting SQL using ORMs like Prisma that hides the database and SQL logic.

Since building a SQL generator (https://aihelperbot.com) as a side project, I have become much more proficient in SQL and even though I am also locked into Prisma, I use the `queryRaw` all the time to execute raw SQL queries. You can understand the code without knowing Prisma API. It is more performant. For more complex SQL queries, I use the SQL generator for initial suggestions and adapt if needed.

For the next projects I build I want to use the minimal Postgres client (https://github.com/brianc/node-postgres) combined with a lightweight migration library.

For newer projects I use the small Postgres client. Initially my leap into SQL was lead by AI but as I refreshed and relearned SQL, I now use a mixture of AI and self-written SQL queries. Something like this is just easier to have AI do the grunt work and then adjustment as needed.

This was a known issue for pg developers, and they managed to fix it a long time ago (at the pg level), but the knowledge of this problem didn't reach Knex maintainers.

Integrate the database into your application itself with a postgres client library allowing your applications to make infrastructure changes (like provisioning sharded resources for a client that wants isolation, or using a more accurate forecasting model to pre-allocate more resources before the storm hits).

node-postgres (raw sql, without ORM)