plugdata VS Sonic Pi

Max4Live is what got me into Ableton, it also got me out of Ableton...

As someone who had been using PureData for quite a while the idea of having that kind of development environment integrated into the DAW was super exciting, unfortunately the actual implementation leaves a lot to be desired; personally the final straw was when I realized that the Max process space was global to Ableton so that global variables would leak between devices (no sandboxing)... This may have been addressed in further releases as I was a very early adopter, but all of the other issues pointed out by the other posters still stand.

If you're looking for a platform agnostic alternative to Max4Live there is PlugData[0] which is a VST implementation of PureData -- the open-source origin of Max and created by the same authors.

And there is the Grid for Bitwig[1] which offers a modular graph based MIDI/DSP programming environment that runs at audio rate and is fully integrated into the DAW as a native solution! The Grid is somewhat limited as it isn't extensible, but it supports >95% of common use cases and is used internally to build Bitwig's native devices. Hopefully in the future Bitwig will extend it's open API surface to include building custom Grid modules -- in the meantime PlugData is perfectly acceptable patch for doing unusual logic calculations and doing left-field things like interfacing with robotics :)

[0] https://plugdata.org/

Automatonism is ongoing, and if you're looking for better UX (as well as a ton of other excellent features, like making plugins and compiling for Daisy) then you should absolutely check out https://plugdata.org!

Sweet! It works now in plugdata, too!

An alternative for this is PlugData -- a native VST host for PureData (the open-source sibling of Max; same original author)

The Rust audio environment might need help, if you're into that:

https://rust.audio/

Maybe this might be worth a look, too:

https://plugdata.org/

It's a recent attempt to make Pure Data more accessible for less technically inclined users.

Well, Miller created Max, which back in those days was more about composition than synthesis and relied on external hardware to create sound. Another fella took Max and developed the commercial product and developed it some more. During this time home computers became good enough for realtime synthesis so Miller developed PD which combined aspects of Max with realtime audio synthesis capabilities. Max thought this was pretty great so integrated pd into Max which gave us Max/MSP, Max is Max Mathews who developed the Music(n) family of programing languages and MSP is Miller S. Puckette.

I would not say that pd or Max/MSP is more approachable, they are pretty even these days unless you stick to vanilla pd with no externals which almost no one does, the main differences is that Max/MSP gives you all you need out of the box but pd can run just about anywhere including in plugins if you are that sort. Max/MSP is considerably more modern in aesthetic but PlugData[0] and PurrData[1] offer more modern interfaces for pd with a few new tricks, PlugData is a plugin version of pd (also standalone), Purrdata is a JavaScript rewrite of the interface with prepackaged externals and solid documentation. And we have a handful of other varieties of pd each which have their own slant and can be found on puredata.info.

0: https://plugdata.org

Not a programmer, but a producer here, and I’m interesting in getting into programming and I don’t know much about it but I want to learn JUCE (and Pure Data; which I know is also available now as a vst! and here’s a link for that https://github.com/plugdata-team/plugdata

This is an important objective of the rapidly-progressing plugdata project! The patcher is based on pure data so you can live patch yourself into deep space with any GP computer (a RasPi works fine), but has a sleek, calm, efficient, and themeable UI. In the last couple of weeks has grown a compiler that is working in its preliminary form both compiling in to C and flashing a Daisy synth dev board. The eventual hope is to gain compatibility across microcontrollers for not just audio synthesis, but for any creative purpose.

The project is here: https://github.com/plugdata-team/plugdata

The builds are coming thick and fast. 0.6.2 is so far behind the daily builds right now that 0.6.3 is going to be an enormous leap in functionality. Tim and the development team are doing a spectacular job of staying focused and cranking out bugfixes and features sometimes multiple times a day.

I have wondered what grooves it could come with using https://sonic-pi.net/

Something fascinating about seeing a 'score' for generative music written out as a sort of specification like that.

There's enough detail there that you can take those instructions and reimplement your own version of it, and you'll end up with essentially the same 'piece of music', but certainly a different interpretation of it. Because while the score lays out some details precisely, it leaves other choices less clear. What does 'all inversions' really mean when enumerating chords? Does it include open, spread voicings? What durations should we choose from for our random waveforms? How short is 'short' when deciding to repeat? And of course, what wave synths should you use, and how should you modulate them?

All those are similar to the decisions a traditional instrumentalist makes when interpreting a sheet music score for performance - here, a generative music coder can follow this 'score' and produce a program that represents their own interpretation of the piece.

Coding it up in Sonic Pi (https://sonic-pi.net/) was a fun exercise, and I feel like I was able to produce something along the lines of what the composer intended. It carries the same kind of mood that the recording in the video has. But it's my own 'performance' of the work, if that makes sense (even if it's actually Sonic Pi 'performing' it at runtime...)

All of which got me thinking about the relationship more generally between specification, and implementation. Considering different programmers' implementations of algorithms as individual 'performances' of scores from the overall design - and then thinking about developers building elements of a larger system architecture as individual performers working to deliver their part of the performance as part of a band or orchestra. Some groups, maybe they're directed by a conductor-architect; others maybe are improvisers, riffing off one another and occasionally stepping up to deliver a solo. And some are maybe solid session performers, showing up and delivering strong but unflashy performances to a producer's specification.

So overall, a nice meditative coding exercise for a Sunday afternoon, and a shift in perspective. Thanks for sharing it.

On a seriously light-hearted note, Herve Aniglo, talked about teaching children to code with music using Sonic PI, a language agnostic platform that helps you learn recursions, looping, circuit breaking and functional programming by creating simple tunes.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPYzvS8A_rTYEba_4SDvR...

- Sonic Pi is built on-top of SuperCollider, but it's MUCH easier to get started with making bleeps and bloops. Sam Aaron, who originally created Overtone (a Clojure front-end for SuperCollider) created Sonic Pi initially to teach kids computer programming and music, but now it's turning into a pretty nice live-coding setup. The language is basically a DSL extension of Ruby, and although it's very elegant, I feel like it's a little nerfed in terms of a full language when compared to SCLang, so I'm sticking with the latter for now. High recommend checking it out if you're new to making music or code. https://sonic-pi.net/

- This 'Intro To Live Coding' vid from Alex McLean is great. Gives a good overview of a few fun tools out there that I won't mention here for sake of time (check out Gibber and Hydra for web-based coding things. Gibber is really slick). Alex invented Tidal Cycles, which I feel is like god-tier in terms of power and conciseness. Maybe I'll tinker with Tidal someday, but I want to start with SC.

Strange dice that it seems to mostly be c++, sponsored by 3 prominent elixir shops, with an original OSC server implementation by Joe Armstrong.

https://github.com/sonic-pi-net/sonic-pi/tree/dev/app/server...

There is a programming language+IDE called SonicPI. It's designed to create music by writing code. You can install the program from the lin, then ask chatGPT to generate some sonic PI code that produces some nice melody. Then just copy the code and paste it into the sonicPI program, and run it by clicking the run button. Here's a conversation for example