plugdata VS glicol

Max4Live is what got me into Ableton, it also got me out of Ableton...

As someone who had been using PureData for quite a while the idea of having that kind of development environment integrated into the DAW was super exciting, unfortunately the actual implementation leaves a lot to be desired; personally the final straw was when I realized that the Max process space was global to Ableton so that global variables would leak between devices (no sandboxing)... This may have been addressed in further releases as I was a very early adopter, but all of the other issues pointed out by the other posters still stand.

If you're looking for a platform agnostic alternative to Max4Live there is PlugData[0] which is a VST implementation of PureData -- the open-source origin of Max and created by the same authors.

And there is the Grid for Bitwig[1] which offers a modular graph based MIDI/DSP programming environment that runs at audio rate and is fully integrated into the DAW as a native solution! The Grid is somewhat limited as it isn't extensible, but it supports >95% of common use cases and is used internally to build Bitwig's native devices. Hopefully in the future Bitwig will extend it's open API surface to include building custom Grid modules -- in the meantime PlugData is perfectly acceptable patch for doing unusual logic calculations and doing left-field things like interfacing with robotics :)

[0] https://plugdata.org/

Automatonism is ongoing, and if you're looking for better UX (as well as a ton of other excellent features, like making plugins and compiling for Daisy) then you should absolutely check out https://plugdata.org!

Sweet! It works now in plugdata, too!

An alternative for this is PlugData -- a native VST host for PureData (the open-source sibling of Max; same original author)

The Rust audio environment might need help, if you're into that:

https://rust.audio/

Maybe this might be worth a look, too:

https://plugdata.org/

It's a recent attempt to make Pure Data more accessible for less technically inclined users.

Well, Miller created Max, which back in those days was more about composition than synthesis and relied on external hardware to create sound. Another fella took Max and developed the commercial product and developed it some more. During this time home computers became good enough for realtime synthesis so Miller developed PD which combined aspects of Max with realtime audio synthesis capabilities. Max thought this was pretty great so integrated pd into Max which gave us Max/MSP, Max is Max Mathews who developed the Music(n) family of programing languages and MSP is Miller S. Puckette.

I would not say that pd or Max/MSP is more approachable, they are pretty even these days unless you stick to vanilla pd with no externals which almost no one does, the main differences is that Max/MSP gives you all you need out of the box but pd can run just about anywhere including in plugins if you are that sort. Max/MSP is considerably more modern in aesthetic but PlugData[0] and PurrData[1] offer more modern interfaces for pd with a few new tricks, PlugData is a plugin version of pd (also standalone), Purrdata is a JavaScript rewrite of the interface with prepackaged externals and solid documentation. And we have a handful of other varieties of pd each which have their own slant and can be found on puredata.info.

0: https://plugdata.org

Not a programmer, but a producer here, and I’m interesting in getting into programming and I don’t know much about it but I want to learn JUCE (and Pure Data; which I know is also available now as a vst! and here’s a link for that https://github.com/plugdata-team/plugdata

This is an important objective of the rapidly-progressing plugdata project! The patcher is based on pure data so you can live patch yourself into deep space with any GP computer (a RasPi works fine), but has a sleek, calm, efficient, and themeable UI. In the last couple of weeks has grown a compiler that is working in its preliminary form both compiling in to C and flashing a Daisy synth dev board. The eventual hope is to gain compatibility across microcontrollers for not just audio synthesis, but for any creative purpose.

The project is here: https://github.com/plugdata-team/plugdata

The builds are coming thick and fast. 0.6.2 is so far behind the daily builds right now that 0.6.3 is going to be an enormous leap in functionality. Tim and the development team are doing a spectacular job of staying focused and cranking out bugfixes and features sometimes multiple times a day.

I've worked on Ambient Engine and now on the Bevy engine. I totally agree with these points, very valuable. I only make some comments from my professional (audio) perspective:

We need the highlight author's affirmation of cli. Rust's tui (ratatui) is great. I used it to make Glicol-cli [1]. If you are a Linux user, you are welcome to test the music production of the code.

Speaking of game audio, I actually think rust is perfect for audio. I have also continued to develop Glicol recently, and my recent goal (starting tomorrow) is the bevy_glicol plug-in. I want to solve bevy's audio problem on the browser.

All in all, even though I've had my share of pain with ecs, I still think rust is very valuable for game and app development, maybe not multiplayer AAA, maybe practical apps.

[1] https://github.com/glicol/glicol-cli

[2] https://github.com/chaosprint/glicol

Nice! Great project website styling and demo.

I had a WebGPU scope demo using vanila JS here, but it's not connected to AudioContext at all.

https://stackblitz.com/edit/vitejs-vite-cuc9vs

Still, I had to use the old WebGL solution for https://glicol.org since the WebGPU support seems to be pretty slow at the moment.

Suno is great and I already shared its potential back in v2. I have always believed that the essence of digital music is "organized numbers". I think what needs to be thought about is how to use AI in this process. If you look at the results (numbers) generated, then we are indeed very close. But there is another future I believe: I hope AI can compose music with me, like copilot. This is why I keep working on

https://glicol.org/

and the destination is:

https://github.com/chaosprint/RaveForce

Also want to hear your feedback.

Interesting!

Similar note-based expression can be found on TidalCycles/Strudel. although it's not valid MIDI format anymore, you can use notation like c4, f3, and make them as "pattern". Samples are also supported in the same manner:

https://strudel.cc/

And in my project Glicol, I use only numbers in the seq node. So 60 means middle C. Underscore means rest.

https://glicol.org/

I also applied with Glicol (https://glicol.org/) and got rejected, which is totally understandable. I am basically working this project on my own with almost zero extra funding.

I am currently working on a new website. The old stack is Vite, Svelte and Windi CSS (discontinued unfortunately). So this time maybe Astro + Solid + Tailwind.

And I am also trying to rewrite the whole Rust backend if possible, so there is quite some work to be done.

Let me know on GH or Discord if you are interested.

It's a good chance to try Rust, WASM, DSP, etc.

This is a really informative and inspiring article.

It hasn’t been 6 months (not 6 years) since I quit my full-time job as a Rust developer to start my own business.

As time goes by, I can feel the pressure of mortgage and car loans, and I can also feel the care and pressure of my family.

My original plan was to make an interface for Glicol (https://glicol.org), and to develop relevant hardware with firmware written in rust for school education.

I sent some cold emails to VCs, but most of them got no reply.

I also sent an email to the Norwegian Museum of Science and Technology, offering to perform for children for free, but they didn’t reply for two months. I shamelessly sent it again, and someone finally replied with a rejection.

Only one VC talked to me and thought that I should convince and validate a partner first, and he suggested that I go to an incubator.

Very good advice.

Later I learned that even Norwegian education startups skipped Norway and focused directly on the US market.

People from the incubator also told me that it is impossible for Norwegian schools to accept new things independently.

This is very enlightening to me because most of Glicol's visitors are indeed from the US. And it took me so long to discover this fact.

But if I don’t start, I’ll never get past those six months.

I picked up LOGO when I was 6 and leant Pascal and C later.

I didn't program for a few years because I wasn't interested in competitions. So I think interest is the most important, otherwise it will be easy to get lost and give up.

Later, I became very interested in programming, mainly because I came into contact with music technology.

I think since your child is interested in game development, it is a good choice to start step by step. For example, starting with threejs. I also recommend learning Rust and Bevy so you learn the underlying layers and ECS.

Last but not least, although it's not related to games dev but I sincerely invite you and your son to try Glicol (https://glicol.org), the project that I am developing.

I quite my job as well to work on

https://glicol.org

I have a lot of feelings, but I don't have a blog so far. But one of my feelings is that universities should alloc some of their funding to many of these open source projects and open source community should be better managed rather than donation. My plan is to start my own company and work on hardware .