noria VS octosql

> Automatically managed, application-transparent, physical denormalisation entirely managed by the database is something I am very, very interested in.

Sounds a bit like Noria: https://github.com/mit-pdos/noria

It feels more than a little bit coincidental to call it Noria when https://github.com/mit-pdos/noria exists (and has been posted about here on HN)... especially with the whole bit about incrementally computing changes.

Is this similar in spirit to Noria?

https://github.com/mit-pdos/noria

I assume you have studied Noria? https://github.com/mit-pdos/noria

If you want to look how databases are implemented in rust try https://github.com/mit-pdos/noria

Only tangentially related, but I wondered what were the difference between ReadySet and Noria, and they address this exact question in their repository I'm really glad to know that the ideas behind Noria didn't die when Noria was abandoned after /u/jonhoo graduated.

:wave: Author of the paper this work is based on here.

I'm so excited to see dynamic, partially-stateful data-flow for incremental materialized view maintenance becoming more wide-spread! I continue to think it's a _great_ idea, and the speed-ups (and complexity reduction) it can yield are pretty immense, so seeing more folks building on the idea makes me very happy.

The PlanetScale blog post references my original "Noria" OSDI paper (https://pdos.csail.mit.edu/papers/noria:osdi18.pdf), but I'd actually recommend my PhD thesis instead (https://jon.thesquareplanet.com/papers/phd-thesis.pdf), as it goes much deeper about some of the technical challenges and solutions involved. It also has a chapter (Appendix A) that covers how it all works by analogy, which the less-technical among the audience may appreciate :) A recording of my thesis defense on this, which may be more digestible than the thesis itself, is also online at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GctxvSPIfr8, as well as a shorter talk from a few years earlier at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s19G6n0UjsM. And the Noria research prototype (written in Rust) is on GitHub: https://github.com/mit-pdos/noria.

As others have already mentioned in the comments, I co-founded ReadySet (https://readyset.io/) shortly after graduating specifically to build off of Noria, and they're doing amazing work to provide these kinds of speed-ups for general-purpose relational databases. If you're using one of those, it's worth giving ReadySet a look to get these kinds of speedups there! It's also source-available @ https://github.com/readysettech/readyset if you're curious.

It seems similar to MIT's Noria [1]

> Noria is a new streaming data-flow system designed to act as a fast storage backend for read-heavy web applications based on Jon Gjengset's Phd Thesis, as well as this paper from OSDI'18. It acts like a database, but precomputes and caches relational query results so that reads are blazingly fast. Noria automatically keeps cached results up-to-date as the underlying data, stored in persistent base tables, change. Noria uses partially-stateful data-flow to reduce memory overhead, and supports dynamic, runtime data-flow and query change.

[1] https://github.com/mit-pdos/noria

Materialize is really neat, also checkout https://github.com/mit-pdos/noria. It inverts the query problem and processes the data on insert. Exactly like what most applications end up doing using a no-sql solution.

Never got it to anything close to a finished state, instead moving on to doing the same prototype in llvm and then cranelift.

That said, here's some of the wazero-based code on a branch - https://github.com/cube2222/octosql/tree/wasm-experiment/was...

It really is just a very very basic prototype.

This is really cool!

With their Postgres scanner[0] you can now easily query multiple datasources using SQL and join between them (i.e. Postgres table with JSON file). Something I strived to build with OctoSQL[1] before.

It's amazing to see how quickly DuckDB is adding new features.

Not a huge fan of C++, which is right now used for authoring extensions, it'd be really cool if somebody implemented a Rust extension SDK, or even something like Steampipe[2] does for Postgres FDWs which would provide a shim for quickly implementing non-performance-sensitive extensions for various things.

Godspeed!

[0]: https://duckdb.org/2022/09/30/postgres-scanner.html

[1]: https://github.com/cube2222/octosql

[2]: https://steampipe.io

Congrats on the Show HN!

It's great to see more tools in this area (querying data from various sources in-place) and the Lambda use case is a really cool idea!

I've recently done a bunch of benchmarking, including ClickHouse Local and the usage was straightforward, with everything working as it's supposed to.

Just to comment on the performance area though, one area I think ClickHouse could still possibly improve on - vs OctoSQL[0] at least - is that it seems like the JSON datasource is slower, especially if only a small part of the JSON objects is used. If only a single field of many is used, OctoSQL lazily parses only that field, and skips the others, which yields non-trivial performance gains on big JSON files with small queries.

Basically, for a query like `SELECT COUNT(*), AVG(overall) FROM books.json` with the Amazon Review Dataset, OctoSQL is twice as fast (3s vs 6s). That's a minor thing though (OctoSQL will slow down for more complicated queries, while for ClickHouse decoding the input is and remains the bottleneck).

[0]: https://github.com/cube2222/octosql

To add somewhat of a counterpoint to the other response, I've tried the Steampipe CSV plugin and got 50x slower performance vs OctoSQL[0], which is itself 5x slower than something like DataFusion[1]. The CSV plugin doesn't contact any external API's so it should be a good benchmark of the plugin architecture, though it might just not be optimized yet.

That said, I don't imagine this ever being a bottleneck for the main use case of Steampipe - in that case I think the APIs themselves will always be the limiting part. But it does - potentially - speak to what you can expect if you'd like to extend your usage of Steampipe to more than just DevOps data.

[0]: https://github.com/cube2222/octosql

[1]: https://github.com/apache/arrow-datafusion

Disclaimer: author of OctoSQL

Actually, folks just use gRPC or Yaegi in Go.

See Terraform[0], Traefik[1], or OctoSQL[2].

Although I agree plugins would be welcome, especially for performance reasons, though also to be able to compile and load go code into a running go process (JIT-ish).

[0]: https://github.com/hashicorp/terraform

[1]: https://github.com/traefik/traefik

[2]: https://github.com/cube2222/octosql

Disclaimer: author of OctoSQL

Through more magic, you COULD of course use stuff like Spark, or easier with programs like TextQL, sq, OctoSQL.

The logo was created for OctoSQL and in the article you can find a lot of sample phrase-image combinations, as it describes the whole path (generation, variation, editing) I went down. Let me know what you think!

Hey, author here, happy to answer any questions!

The logo was created for OctoSQL[0] and in the article you can find a lot of sample phrase-image combinations, as it describes the whole path (generation, variation, editing) I went down. Let me know what you think!

[0]:https://github.com/cube2222/octosql