no-panic VS rfcs

I discovered a crate called no_panic that prevents a function from compiling, unless the compiler can proof that this function can't panic.

/u/dtolnay has a no-panic macro, I don't know its limitations but in older comments they note it pretty much has to be used in release mode, as there are lots of panic codepaths which get optimised out.

'Hacks' such as https://github.com/dtolnay/no-panic, https://crates.io/crates/no-panics-whatsoever that ensure any calls to panic handling will result in link errors. Not really reliable in terms of being able to abort instead, but a possible tool.

nope. Unfortunately, no mainstream language has this yet. We need an Algebraic effects typesystem to do this properly. There are a few temporary band-aid solutions like https://github.com/dtolnay/no-panic

This kind of already exists in the form of #[no_panic] [1]?

> If the function does panic (or the compiler fails to prove that the function cannot panic), the program fails to compile with a linker error that identifies the function name.

1: https://github.com/dtolnay/no-panic

I really think that Rust needs an official #[no_panic] macro that can validate these sort of things (like dtolnay’s crate, I’m not sure why it was archived)

Because it's convenient and familiar to most programmers. Not providing bounds-checked indexing makes some kinds of code very hard to write.

But note his problem also happens with integer division.

In Rust, a[x] on an array or vec is really a roughly a shortand for a.get(x).unwrap() (with a different error message)

Likewise, a / b on integers is a kind of a shortand for a.checked_div(b).unwrap()

The thing is, if the index ever is out of bounds, or if the denominator is zero, the program has a bug, 100% of time. And if you catch a bug using an assertion there is seldom anything better than interrupting the execution (the only thing I can think of is restarting the program or the subsystem). If you continue execution past a programming error, you may sometimes corrupt data structures or introduce bizarre, hard to debug situations.

Doing a pattern match on a.get(x) doesn't help because if it's ever None (and your program logic expects that x is in bounds) then you are kind of forced to bail.

The downside here is that we aren't catching this bug at compile time. And it's true that sometimes we can rewrite the program to not have an indexing operation, usually using iterators (eliding the bounds check will make the program run faster, too). But in general this is not possible, at least not without bringing formal methods. But that's what tests are for, to ensure the correctness of stuff type errors can't catch.

Now, there are some crates like https://github.com/dtolnay/no-panic or https://github.com/facebookexperimental/MIRAI that will check that your code is panic free. The first one is based on the fact that llvm optimizations can often remove dead code and thus remove the panic from a[x] or a / b - if it doesn't, then compilation fails. The second one employs formal methods to mathematically prove that there is no panic. I guess those techniques will eventually be ported to the kernel even if panics happen differently there (by hooking on the BUG mechanism or whatever)

Hmm, yeah as you mentioned, looks like a surprising amount of stuff is already done in the rust for the linux kernel project: https://github.com/Rust-for-Linux/linux/tree/rust/rust/. It's also MIT/Apache licensed, but I was expecting gpl, so I can actually use it. It's still a lot to trim down on, so might be easier to just build up as needed. Additionally I just saw /u/dtolnay's #[no_panic] attribute which at least makes it a compiler error if it's accidentally done.

Obviously, in bare metal systems, in the kernel, etc, you always want to use the second style. In this patch series, the first type had been stubbed out to panic, but Linus doesn't want any chance of panicking, he wants it to be a compile time error if anyone tries to call these methods from within the kernel, for example by not providing the symbols and failing to link if someone did try to use them. There is already precedent for doing that in the Rust ecosystem, so it's planned to do that in this patch series, but the authors hadn't gotten to that yet.

RFC: Add large language models to Rust

https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/3603

Man, SO and family has really gone downhill. That top answer is absolutely terrible. In fact, if you care, you can literally look at the RFC discussion here to see the actual debate: https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/582

Basically, `for x in y` is kind of redundant, already sorta-kinda supported by itertools, and there's also a ton of macros that sorta-kinda do it already. It would just be language bloat at this point.

Literally has nothing to do with memory management.

Congrats!

> Similarly, uv does not yet generate a platform-agnostic lockfile. This matches pip-tools, but differs from Poetry and PDM, making uv a better fit for projects built around the pip and pip-tools workflows.

Do you expect to make the higher level workflow independent of requirements.txt / support a platform-agnostic lockfile? Being attached to Rye makes me think "no".

Without being platform agnostic, to me this is dead-on-arrival and unable to meet the "Cargo for Python" aim.

> uv supports alternate resolution strategies. By default, uv follows the standard Python dependency resolution strategy of preferring the latest compatible version of each package. But by passing --resolution=lowest, library authors can test their packages against the lowest-compatible version of their dependencies. (This is similar to Go's Minimal version selection.)

> uv allows for resolutions against arbitrary target Python versions. While pip and pip-tools always resolve against the currently-installed Python version (generating, e.g., a Python 3.12-compatible resolution when running under Python 3.12), uv accepts a --python-version parameter, enabling you to generate, e.g., Python 3.7-compatible resolutions even when running under newer versions.

This is great to see though!

I can understand it being a flag on these lower level, directly invoked dependency resolution operations.

While you aren't onto the higher level operations yet, I think it'd be useful to see if there is any cross-ecosystem learning we can do for my MSRV RFC: https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/3537

How are you handling pre-releases in you resolution? Unsure how much of that is specified in PEPs. Its something that Cargo is weak in today but we're slowly improving.

In the early days of Rust there was a debate about whether to support "green threads" and in doing that require runtime support. It was actually implemented and included for a time but it creates problems when trying to do library or embedded code. At the time Go for example chose to go that route, and it was both nice (goroutines are nice to write and well supported) and expensive (effectively requires GC etc). I don't remember the details but there is a Rust RFC from when they removed green threads:

https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/blob/0806be4f282144cfcd55b...

I did some more digging. By RFC 899, I believe Alex Crichton meant PR 899 in this repo:

https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/899

Still, no real discussion of why unbuffered stderr.

Rust has had a stable SIMD vector API[1] for a long time. But, it's architecture specific. The portable API[2] isn't stable yet, but you probably can't use the portable API for some of the more exotic uses of SIMD anyway. Indeed, that's true in .NET's case too[3].

Rust does all this SIMD too. It just isn't in the standard library. But the regex crate does it. Indeed, this is where .NET got its SIMD approach for multiple substring search from in the first place[4]. ;-)

You're right that Rust's standard library is conservatively vectorized though[5]. The main thing blocking this isn't the lack of SIMD availability. It's more about how the standard library is internally structured, and the fact that things like substring search are not actually defined in `std` directly, but rather, in `core`. There are plans to fix this[6].

[1]: https://doc.rust-lang.org/std/arch/index.html

[2]: https://doc.rust-lang.org/std/simd/index.html

[3]: https://github.com/dotnet/runtime/blob/72fae0073b35a404f03c3...

[4]: https://github.com/dotnet/runtime/pull/88394#issuecomment-16...

[5]: https://github.com/BurntSushi/memchr#why-is-the-standard-lib...

[6]: https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/3469