may VS ocaml

https://github.com/Xudong-Huang/may

The project has some serious restrictions and unsound footguns (e.g. around TLS), but otherwise it's usable enough. There are also a number of C/C++ libraries, but I can not comment on those.

> e.g. Linux mutexes

You don't want to use blocking mutexes anyway with async.

> or Rust's Rc

This is only half true. The danger is that two `Rc` that point to the same data are in different threads. But it should be safe to move all of them at once from one thread to another, which is exactly the case if all the `Rc`s involved live inside a `Future`. The problem is that this is a non-local property that's hard to encode in the type system.

> By the way, if you wish to test uncolored async in Rust, you can find an implementation here: https://github.com/Xudong-Huang/may .

FYI that's known to be unsound due to thread locals. And more generally it doesn't seem to give much attention to safety (see for example how it allowed unsound scoped tasks, or the fact it allows doing unsafe operations in some of its macros due to wrong scoping of `unsafe` blocks).

It seems that rust removed native green threads as against it's philosophy: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/29428318/why-did-rust-remove-the-green-threading-model-whats-the-disadvantage#29430403 but there are good CSP libraries e.g. https://github.com/Xudong-Huang/may and yet people really like e.g. Tokio for Async/Await (although it also has greenthreads!) What am I missing?

Can you admit that you failed in making it a pleasant experience to write async, especially for library authors? I don’t think it’s too late to admit failure and implement something like May https://github.com/Xudong-Huang/may

Your benchmark is comparing apples to oranges, you're benchmarking different things. If you wanted to compare a Rust solution to something like what Go does, you would need to use something like this library.

Yep. This is the best coroutine library right now https://github.com/Xudong-Huang/may

I am still intrigued by the stackful coroutine library, May https://github.com/Xudong-Huang/may. I would like to see how far this library can push the boundaries of being a higher level alternative to async

There is also "may" which attempts to be a Rust version of goroutines. I have not used it though, so can't comment on anything further about it.

This library https://github.com/Xudong-Huang/may implement Stackful Coroutines in Rust which I believe is pretty close to what you're asking about. I believe it's a reasonably complete implementation, but it doesn't have much traction because most of the Rust ecosystem is using either async/await or native threads.

I've never worked with C# so I need to look into that.

The one saving grace with Rust is if everyone decides to say "screw async" and just builds synchronous APIs, then we use something like [May](https://github.com/Xudong-Huang/may) for green threading.

> OCaml’s configure script is also “normal”

If that’s this OCaml, it has a configure.ac file in the root directory, which looks suspicious for an Autotools-free package: https://github.com/ocaml/ocaml

You probably already know, but with OCaml 5 the only way to get flamegraphs working is to either:

* use framepointers [1]

* use LBR (but LBR has a limited depth, and may not work on on all CPUs, I'm assuming due to bugs in perf)

* implement some deep changes in how perf works to handle the 2 stacks in OCaml (I don't even know if this would be possible), or write/adapt some eBPF code to do it

OCaml 5 has a separate stack for OCaml code and C code, and although GDB can link them based on DWARF info, perf DWARF call-graphs cannot (https://github.com/ocaml/ocaml/issues/12563#issuecomment-193...)

If you need more evidence to keep it enabled in future releases, you can use OCaml 5 as an example (unfortunately there aren't many OCaml applications, so that may not carry too much weight on its own).

[1]: I haven't actually realised that Fedora39 has already enabled FP by default, nice! (I still do most of my day-to-day profiling on an ~CentOS 7 system with 'perf --call-graph dwarf', I was aware that there was a discussion to enable FP by default, but haven't noticed it has actually been done already)

11. OCaml - $91,026

> It partially helps since it forces you to have types where they matters most: exported functions

But the problém the OP has is not knowing the types when reading the source (in the .ml file).

> How would it feels like to use list if only https://github.com/ocaml/ocaml/blob/trunk/stdlib/list.ml was available,

If the signature where in the source file (which you can do in OCaml too), there would be no problem - which is what all the other (for some definition of "other") languages except C and C++ (even Fortran) do.

No, really, I can't see a single advantage of separate .mli files at all. The real problém is that the documentation is often worse too, as the .mli is autogenerated and documented afterwards - and now changes made later in the sources need to be documented in the mli too, so anything that doesn't change the type often gets lost. The same happens in C and C++ with header files.

If you have been in the Ruby community for the past couple of years, it's possible that you're not a super fan of types or that this concept never passed through your mind, and that's totally cool. I myself love the dynamic and meta-programming nature of Ruby, and honestly, by the time of this article's writing, we aren't on the level of OCaml for type checking and inference, but still, there are a couple of nice things that types with sorbet bring to the table:

Looks like there have been proposals to eliminate use of 3 operand lea in OCaml code (not accepted sadly):

https://github.com/ocaml/ocaml/pull/8531

An amazing example is Ocaml lang logo / mascot. It might be useful to talk with them to know what was the process behind this work. The About page camel head on Perl dot org header is also a pretty good example of simplification, but it's not a logo, just a friendly illustration, as the O'Reilly camel is. Another notable logo for this animal is the well known tobacco industry company, but don't get me started on that (“good” logo, though, if we look at the effectiveness of their marketing).

Haskell and Agda are probably the most obvious examples. Ocaml too, but it is much older, so its type system is not as categorical. There is also Idris, which is not as well-known but is very cool.

That does sound problematic, but without the code it is hard to tell what is the issue. Typically, compiling a 6kLoc file like https://github.com/ocaml/ocaml/blob/trunk/typing/typecore.ml takes 0.8 s on my machine.