matrix-rust-sdk VS The Lounge

Yep, a good example is the element X rewrite

They use Jetpack on Android

https://github.com/vector-im/element-x-android

And SwiftUI on iOS

https://github.com/vector-im/element-x-ios

But both use the same underlying Matrix Rust SDK

https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-rust-sdk

So they share the core part of the app between platforms, but everything user facing is native

The one place eyebal is already being used is matrix-rust-sdk, mostly for bits of the API that act as a model for specific UI parts in apps built on top of it. A part of those APIs is also using observable vectors from eyeball-im, which I didn't mention initially because it's not as well-documented and polished.

Hello everyone, I am finally making it to all of the great talks about Matrix from FOSDEM 23, and one thing that seemed like an obvious thing that could be built on some of the new projects works (matrix-rich-text-editor, matrix-rust-sdk) is a collaborative (multi-user, live edits) document tool built ontop of rust. That said, I haven't seen any project doing this yet. Does anyone know of one?

Another important piece of the ecosystem for which Rust was used is the SDK. This new SDK was used to write the newest mobile client - Element X. The current Element client will also see its cryptography implementation being changed from Javascript to Rust, this was also made possible by the new Rust based SDK.

Let's say I'll switch as soon as they start using Sanakirja. They're partially right in their analysis of Sanakirja, but their comments are more about the lack of expressiveness of the unsafe keyword in Rust than about Sanakirja itself. I'm preparing a blog post about my dream version of unsafe.

>Well I care, that does not mean that you have to care.

The point I'm making is that the protocol being implement-able by yourself or grabbing a lib from someone else is moot, since you will 9 times out of 10 use a library.

>Again, look at the lack of client diversity for Matrix and tell me that you do not think that there is at least some correlation in terms of the complexity of the protocol.

The problem is not client diversity for Matrix - there's plenty of them. The problem is that Matrix is more than displaying a log on a screen, and most of the clients are frankly abysmal and could use a trained UI/UX owner.

>last I checked it meant using either Python or Go

The Rust SDK has worked well for me, although I can't state how close it is to Python or Go's libs. That said, I know I'm certainly not the only one using it.

The Rust lib could be wrapped into other languages (e.g, Ruby) if there's not a good SDK for that language. I don't really consider this to be an issue, especially considering the Rust SDK is maintained by the Matrix org themselves.

https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-rust-sdk

>Add to this that the more mandatory features you have and keep adding

Don't maintain your own bespoke library and you won't have to. :)

>But I am not going to behave as if images, reactions, code blocks, threads, end-to-end encryption, voice calls, video calls, etc. do not come at a cost.

They do come at a cost, but that's the price of admission for what people expect from modern chat systems. I'd rather live in 2022 than 2004, and I grew up on IRC.

I'm not entirely sure what I plan to use Rust with at the moment, however my first project so far has been to write a Matrix bot using the matrix-rust-sdk library :)

Just for everyone else reading, the modern Matrix Rust stack referred to here is the matrix-rust-sdk: https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-rust-sdk

The current way we're approaching this is to split the reference E2EE implementation into its own rust crate (https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-rust-sdk/tree/master/ma...) which can be used with any SDK (e.g. we're almost finished embedding it into the Kotlin matrix-android-sdk2 client)

Separately, there's also the overall matrix-rust-sdk https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-rust-sdk for clients to use as a "full fat" Matrix client SDK - as used by Fractal Next (https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/fractal/-/tree/fractal-next) etc. We might end up using this in Element too in future (especially in Element iOS, where a Swift UI + matrix-rust-sdk backend could be quite a cute next generation architecture).

So while the first generation reference Matrix SDKs (matrix-js-sdk, matrix-ios-sdk and matrix-android-sdk) were completely independent implementations, each with their own bugs and increased audit surface, we're hoping that matrix-rust-sdk will simplify this a lot in future.

IRC as a protocol is indeed incredibly simple and easy to get started with. Years ago did discover this when I was able to make [this atrocity](https://github.com/creesch/discordIRCd) bridging IRC and discord where for IRC I effectively did a simple server implementation.

There is a caveat, though. Like many older protocols (ftp) there is a lot that was not initially written down or left up to clients and server implementations. This, does lead to a lot of edge cases you need to be aware of once you want to actually support a wider user group.

Also, as this is apparently is still a discussion. IRC is not simple from a modern user UX perception. Registration can be complex and confusing, though hidden a bit through clients. Managing channels with various flags is a whole other thing. Then there is also the fact that these days people are no longer used to the fact that they can't see messages from periods where they were not connected. Of course, the latter can be easily handled by a BNC or fancy clients like https://thelounge.chat . But, that is only easy for technically inclined folks.

> It’s 2024, people aren’t going to go out of their way to setup “bouncers” to keep up with conversation that happens when they’re not online or leave their computer running 24/7.

You can just set up something like The Lounge [0].

[0] https://thelounge.chat/

Excellent idea! You'll have a mature, open standard protocol under the hood, with no vendor lock-in, excellent extensibility, and great modern frontends like The Lounge (https://thelounge.chat/) or Convos (https://convos.chat/) to choose from (and you can choose).

For the other layers one can front-end IRC with TheLounge [1][2] or Convos [3][4]. TheLounge only persists history in private mode meaning that users are created in that front-end and chat messages are in Redis. For small networks or groups of friends this is probably fine.

Notably missing is voice chat. I use the Mumble client [5] with the Murmur or uMurmur [6] server which is light-weight enough to run on ones home router. I use it on Alpine Linux, works great. It's not a shiny and attention grabbing as Discord but probably fine for everyone else. For people to create their own voice channels would require the full-blown Murmur server.

[1] - https://github.com/thelounge

[2] - https://thelounge.chat/

[3] - https://github.com/convos-chat/convos/

[4] - https://convos.chat/

[5] - https://www.mumble.info/

[6] - https://github.com/umurmur/umurmur/wiki/Configuration

As another self-hosted solution, I quite like TheLounge (https://thelounge.chat)

TheLounge (https://github.com/thelounge/thelounge) - web IRC client that I set to listen on my vpn/mesh. Works great on desktop and mobile, and supports push notifications.