emscripten VS Doodle

Browsers limit the ability for these platforms to use raw sockets, there simply is no API for it. The best that can be done /today/ is to use WebSockets, which are not the same thing any can't be used for HTTP requests without the server expecting a WebSocket connection:

https://github.com/emscripten-core/emscripten/issues/5196#is...

Only half true. Emscripten implements the SDL 1.2 (and also SDL_mixer 1.2) API in Javascript here: https://github.com/emscripten-core/emscripten/blob/main/src/.... On the other hand SDL 2 (and SDL_mixer 2) are proper ports (which you linked to).

So there's quite a size penalty to using SDL 2 rather than SDL 1.2.

Playing with low-level stuff is fun, but I won't use it anywhere in productionable code. Well, at least without considerable experience and understanding of the Emscripten code base.

Thank you for your comment!

WASM gave Figma a lot of speed by default for a lot of perf-sensitive code like rendering, layouts, applying styles and materializing component instances, our GUI code is mostly React and CSS.

WASM engine performance has not been a problem for us, instead we are constantly looking forward improvements in the devex department: debugging, profiling and modularization.

One of the largest challenges of the platform we face today is the heap size limit. While Chrome supports up to 4GB today, that's not yet the case for all browsers. And even with that, we are still discovering bugs in the toolchain (see this recent issue filed by one of our engineers) https://github.com/emscripten-core/emscripten/issues/20137

The challenge of the perf-testing at scale in our company is helping developers to detect perf regressions when they don't expect them - accidental algorithmic errors, misused caches, over-rendering React components, dangerously inefficient CSS directives, etc.

https://github.com/emscripten-forge/recipes/tree/main/recipe...

Re: emscripten fs implementations: https://github.com/emscripten-core/emscripten/issues/15041#i... https://github.com/jupyterlite/jupyterlite/issues/315

Moving onto the project, let’s first install Emscripten from their git repository. Emscripten will compile C into Wasm code. An important note is that I will be using Mac OS for this project. If you want to follow along using Windows, use this link. To Begin, open your terminal and clone down Emscripten with:

I got pointed to this one here: https://github.com/emscripten-core/emscripten/issues/15487

If you want to do it, go to town. This is the only reference I could find to anybody targeting wasm with i2pd frankly I really hope the person inquiring in the issue is also you.

Right, and if that momentum is going to last 20 years, then that's going to dictate what's a good strategic decision and what isn't for the next 20 years. Thanks for letting me know what the good options might be when my infant daughter is halfway through college, that doesn't help me save for it in the meantime.

Prior familiarity is a very good reason to pick an option for a greenfield project if you're operating on any type of serious budget (time or money), especially if you need to hire others to help out. There's also the annoying reality that most libraries for new/up-and-coming languages are simply inadequate, despite whatever claims they make.

For instance, one of my personal side projects involves getting familiar with WebAssembly (note: not on a serious budget), and I'm using emscripten to transcode because that's what the internet seemed to think was the closest thing to a standard toolkit. I found a bug simply by combining two pieces of example code from Emscripten's own documentation (you'll note I'm transcoding from c++ due to prior familiarity): https://github.com/emscripten-core/emscripten/issues/17143

This is not a dig on emscripten per se, merely pointing out that it's probably not mature enough for the stress of corporate-scale development, where you encounter all sorts of crazy edge cases well beyond the sample code. Java over the years has obtained that level of maturity. The edge cases are largely solved or at least known, and there's an army of experts and consultants ready to help if there's a problem. When time is money, that matters. It determines the risk profile of any project, greenfield or otherwise.

Java's momentum hasn't stopped, at best it's simply slowing. And at this rate it'll take decades to come to a stop, and decades more to recede to any meaningful degree. I'll also point out that C is very much alive and well in the embedded world. Plenty of job postings looking for C experience explicitly.

https://blog.jetbrains.com/kotlin/2023/08/compose-multiplatf...

They don't really mention Wasm there as this mostly focuses on the IOS support. They had a lot of presentations about that at kotlin conf and the compose web channel in the kotlin slack is very active.

Basically, anyone currently doing mobile development that is used to modern UI frameworks for that, will soon be able to target browsers effortlessly without compromising on their UI frameworks. Compose is one of the frameworks. But there are others. I've seen some nice kotlin-js frameworks targeting canvas and vector graphics. Doodle is a nice example: https://nacular.github.io/doodle/. I have not used that yet but it looks quite slick. A lot of kotlin-js stuff will transition to wasm once the compiler stabilizes.

Web developers seem to be mostly unable to see beyond their comfort zone of DOM/CSS/JS. There are alternative ways of doing UI/UX that are common outside of browsers. Applying that in a browser is transitioning from impossible (a few years ago) to being hard but very feasible (the last few years) to being easy, very common, and widely supported across different developer ecosystems (the next few years). Not a matter of if but when.

Doodle is a pure Kotlin UI framework for the Web (and Desktop), that lets you create rich applications without relying on Javascript, HTML or CSS. Check out the documentation and tutorials to learn more.

Doodle - A pure Kotlin UI framework for the Web (and Desktop).

Doodle is a pure Kotlin UI framework for the Web (and Desktop), that lets you create rich applications without relying on Javascript, HTML or CSS. Check out the documentation and tutorials to learn more.