element-x-ios VS Element

Matrix is a protocol, not an app, and it's still evolving rapidly.

Meanwhile, Element as an app is also evolving rapidly too. Totally agreed that the onboarding has been awful in the past, but we're plugging away improving it and trying to make it more glossy and less neckbeardy, as per https://element.io/labs/element-x etc.

The fact is that Discord has raised $1B+ to run a centralised unencrypted comms platform; meanwhile Element is doing something ~10x harder (decentralised & E2EE) with a tiny fraction of the $. It takes longer, but the difference is that Matrix should last indefinitely, whereas Discord will get Eloned sooner or later.

I wouldn't say we've lost yet, but ymmv. I do wish we'd progressed faster though.

Element X is not finished or intended for average users yet, as https://element.io/labs/element-x makes clear. It’s a preview of the future of Element.

Matrix itself is a big messy thing, much like the Web - this is both its power and a potential weakness.

Element X is indeed a fancy new client - but it hasn't hit a 1.0 yet. Think of it a lot like Firefox was pre-1.0; it's unrecognisably faster and better than the previous generation... but not all features are there yet. Meanwhile, there are loads of entirely unrelated independent excellent clients out there too; it's not just about Element v Element X.

> But I wasn't able to set up the encryption with my recovery key, there was only the online validation which I couldn't use because I was on the go and didn't have access to my desktop.

This bug is an accidental thinko however: it's placeholder UI which is about to be replaced by implementing login-via-scanning-QR-code (which is almost there), but obviously that also needs the ability to enter recovery keys too. Eitherway, it's being fixed: https://github.com/element-hq/element-x-ios/issues/2424

> also seems to still lack TOFU for my private server

Yup, sorry, TOFU for TLS isn't implemented yet in EX.

> The same with the homeservers, there's synapse and dendrite is supposed to take over at some point but that point is forever far in the future. And then there's conduit, so which one is it?

Synapse is a stable server where the core team is putting its effort currently. Dendrite is a 2nd gen server from the core team, but is beta and a) ended up being focused on P2P and embedded homeservers and experimental MSCs, b) is starved of resource atm due to funding pressure (c.f. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5BrVVf0B1I&t=316s). Conduit is an independent server implementation in Rust, which is promising but beta.

It's like asking whether you should use Apache httpd or beta versions of nginx or lighttpd in the early days of the Web.

> The strategy doesn't really feel well thought out in that sense.

The strategy at Element (which employs most of the Matrix core team) is pretty clear right now:

1. Improve Synapse as the most mature and stable server implementation (and package it in Element Server Suite for those needing an enterprise Matrix distro: https://element.io/server-suite)

2. Finish implementing sufficient features in Element X that it can replace the old classic Element mobile apps asap - converging on a single Rust codebase, so that bugs & audits & new features can all land in one place.

3. Keep building Element Web/Desktop and Element Call.

...and that's it.

If it seems confusing, that's either because we're in the middle of the Element -> Element X shuffle... or because the nature of Matrix is that there's loads of other independent implementations running around too. But that's what makes it fun, too :)

i’d have been in danger of agreeing a year ago, but thankfully we proved otherwise with Element X: https://element.io/labs/element-x. Bit embarassing that we didn’t get there sooner, but human fallibility and all that.

Yep, a good example is the element X rewrite

They use Jetpack on Android

https://github.com/vector-im/element-x-android

And SwiftUI on iOS

https://github.com/vector-im/element-x-ios

But both use the same underlying Matrix Rust SDK

https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-rust-sdk

So they share the core part of the app between platforms, but everything user facing is native

And the cake under the cherry is… Element X is open-source[1][2]!

I really can't wait for Beeper[3] to rebuild their fork on top of Element X (it's currently based on Element, formerly called Riot). If this happens this will be an absolute game-changer in the messaging ecosystem.

[1] https://github.com/vector-im/element-x-ios

[2] https://github.com/vector-im/element-x-android

[3] https://www.beeper.com/

Yes, eventually. Right now the sliding sync MSC is still in flux (e.g. we just realised today that it's missing an explicit flag to notify once the client has caught up with the server, rather than guessing via heuristics: https://github.com/vector-im/element-x-ios/issues/1269#issue...). As a result, the implementation (which is in golang) is being kept separate from Synapse for now while we iterate on it; plus it's a separate set of folks working on it. This also means that SS can be used with any existing server (dendrite, conduit etc) as needed.

It'll get added natively to Synapse eventually, but it'll likely be quite a way off.

Element X is an entirely new client written in Rust + Swift UI/Jetpack Compose (https://github.com/vector-im/element-x-ios and https://github.com/vector-im/element-x-android) which will eventually replace the legacy Element apps (https://github.com/vector-im/element-ios and https://github.com/vector-im/element-android).

The features already exist serverside; we're just working on getting them out of beta.

Yep, it's definitely been frustrating in the past. The number of iOS Element bugs was overwhelming at times too. It's a lot more stable now, but the bubble layout still isn't the default - I think that's what most people expect from a personal messenger. I'm looking forward to seeing what the Rust rewrite [1] brings for performance/stability.

FluffyChat also has quite nice UX and a bubble layout by default, but threads are still a while off [2]. On iOS it worked flawlessly through the iOS 16 betas while Element had some show stopping bugs, a couple of my friends moved over if they were on the beta.

I haven't had any friends ask me about the verify session buttons. I don't see any prompts on latest iOS Element but it's still too prominent on Element desktop for my liking.

SchildiChat [3] is my daily driver and feels more friendly than Element on desktop (unified DMs & group chats, no verify UX, chat bubbles), but it doesn't have any update mechanism built in, so I'm wary to recommend it to non-technical friends. It was also my goto recommendation on Android before the Element redesign.

I'm confident the ecosystem is moving in the right direction though, and so thankful for the amount of choice.

[1]: https://github.com/vector-im/element-x-ios

iOS is still not great, but they are making a new one.

I'm just happy they resisted the buyout by Microsoft.

> Matrix looks really close, but it needs ALOT of love.

Matrix is just a protocol. Clients competing with Discord would be things like Element. https://element.io/

It's no Discord (which itself is no WLM, by the way), but I sorely hope it or something open source gets there one day.

I made an account in Cinny using my Github account. I am trying to migrate my account into element.io. How do I do this? Forgot password is not even an option in Cinny.

Element is an open-source instant messaging client built on the Matrix protocol, offering users features such as end-to-end encryption, file sharing, and voice/video calls. The self-hosted version accommodates up to 200 users at no charge, providing a budget-saving secure and collaborative communication platform. perthguppy describes it as a "slack style team chat."

Hello! I am offering my services as a C and C++ tutor/teacher for $25 an hour. You pay at the end of each hour and you can walk away without paying for the first hour if you are unsatisfied. I can work with beginners through the upper intermediate level. I can either tutor you while you take an existing course or teach you from scratch. As for my experience, I've been working with C++ for over three years, driven by my love of learning, programming, and technology. I’ve worked with over 50 clients during the past year with all positive feedback. Below is my policy when dealing with less familiar subjects. While C and C++ are the languages I am most experienced with, I regularly take on jobs in other languages. When working with subjects I am not overly or at all familiar with, I only charge $20 an hour, sometimes with additional discounts. This is to compensate for the extra time I may need to spend on the project. I am a quick learner who can learn what I need to help you through your course as you go. I have done this with many people before with great results. Please note this works best the closer you are to the start of your course. The following are subjects I have tutored for at least one semester: C, C++, Python, OpenGL, operating systems, drivers, R, and Web Assembly. I addition, I have some limited experience in the following subjects: HTML, CSS, JavaScript, Lua, Bash, Vulkan, CMake, NASM, Pandas, and Asio. Again, please keep in mind that even if your subject is not listed, I may still be able to help you. Please DM me if you are interested in hiring me or have any questions at all. We will work via Element (https://element.io) voice/screen share calls, so please make sure you have a mic available. I look forward to hearing from you.

- Various GUI instability bugs: chats that are suddenly empty, text suddenly randomly overlaid on other text

1: https://github.com/vector-im/element-web/issues/24392