drogon VS Graal

I looked at oatpp and drogon, which are both great, but feel too high-level for my purposes. I tried drogon and got something working, but it feels like too much for my requirements, as in particular I'd like to slot in my choice of Json and message-body handling. C.f. the simple approach in Crow, which I easily understand and build on.

drogonframework/drogon i drogonframework/trantor

talking about C++, there are drogon framework: https://github.com/drogonframework/drogon

not bells and whistles like on Wt as there are no integrated widgets. But have c++ based template (for HTML) engine and other integrated parts what you expect from framework (routing, controllers, db, authentication handling and so on).

and boasts high performance design

C++ - my favorite language, and, with modern revisions, extremely expressive and readable. There isn't a web server in the standard library, but there are a number of solid open-source choices (e.g., Drogon).

> * Let’s not pretend all conceivable applications are, or should be, written in C++.*

This is a discussion on C++.

> People mostly stopped using C++ to develop web servers which handle web requests, because they moved to Java, C#, PHP, Ruby, Python, etc.

I'm not sure you understood what I said, or thought things through.

By the way, the top performing web framework in the Tech Empower benchmark is a C++ framework which uses C++'s standard smart pointers.

https://github.com/drogonframework/drogon

Also, one of the most popular web frameworks for Python started off as an April Fools joke. I'm not sure what's your point.

Lastly, the main reason why C++ ceased to be the most popular choice in some domains was because it was during a very long time the most popular choice in some domains, and still remains one of the most popular choices. Some of the reasons why C++ dropped in popularity is the fact that some vendors decided to roll their own alternatives while removing support for C++. Take for instance Microsoft, which was once responsible for making C++ the only tool in town for professional software development. Since it started pushing C# for all sorts of web applications, multi-platform applications, and even desktop applications, and also pushing the adoption of those technologies as a basic requirement to distribute apps in its app store, developers can only use technologies that exist. But does that say anything about the merits of C++?

https://github.com/drogonframework/drogon has the best performance afaik

Drogon is a framework for doing web backend in c++ but it is nowhere near on the level of something like Django in terms of ergonomics. In terms of Rust, Rocket is trying to be the easy to use framework with low boilerplate.

> How would one go about building a rest service in C++?

I'd use https://github.com/drogonframework/drogon if the app needs to be pure C++ or Cutelyst (https://cutelyst.org/) if it's a Qt app which needs to expose an http server

About the project - I was trying to find the perfect reliable and performant rust's web framework to use for one of my personal project, and since I've been using Drogon/uWebSockets previously, I wanted to choose the best one to replace it. So I decided to create a benchmark system that is fully automated.

Contrary to what vocal Kotlin advocates might believe, Kotlin only matters on Android, and that is thanks to Google pushing it no matter what.

https://spectrum.ieee.org/the-top-programming-languages-2023

https://snyk.io/reports/jvm-ecosystem-report-2021/

And even so, they had to conceed Android and Kotlin on their own, without the Java ecosystem aren't really much useful, thus ART is now updatable via Play Store, and currently supports OpenJDK 17 LTS on Android 12 and later devices.

As for your question regarding numbers, mostly Java 74.6%, C++ 13.7%, on the OpenJDK, other JVM implementations differ, e.g. GraalVM is mostly Java 91.8%, C 3.6%.

https://github.com/openjdk/jdk

https://github.com/oracle/graal

Two examples from many others, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Java_virtual_machines

Pkl was built using the GraalVM Truffle framework. So it supports runtime compilation using Futurama Projections. We have been working with Apple on this for a while, and I am quite happy that we can finally read the sources!

https://github.com/oracle/graal/tree/master/truffle

Disclaimer: graalvm dev here.

That's pretty interesting. It's not as aggressive as Bee sounds, but the Espresso JVM is somewhat similar in concept. It's a full blown JVM written in Java with all the mod cons, which can either be compiled ahead of time down to memory-efficient native code giving something similar to a JVM written in C++, or run itself as a Java application on top of another JVM. In the latter mode it obviously doesn't achieve top-tier performance, but the advantage is you can easily hack on it using all the regular Java tools, including hotswapping using the debugger.

When run like this, the bytecode interpreter, runtime system and JIT compiler are all regular Java that can be debugged, edited, explored in the IDE, recompiled quickly and so on. Only the GC is provided by the host system. If you compile it to native code, the GC is also written in Java (with some special conventions to allow for convenient direct memory access).

What's most interesting is that Espresso isn't a direct translation of what a classical C++ VM would look like. It's built on the Truffle framework, so the code is extremely high level compared to traditional VM code. Details like how exactly transitions between the interpreter/compiled code happen, how you communicate pointer maps to the GC and so on are all abstracted away. You don't even have to invoke the JIT compiler manually, that's done for you too. The only code Espresso really needs is that which defines the semantics of the Java bytecode language and associated tools like the JDWP debugger protocol.

https://github.com/oracle/graal/tree/master/espresso

This design makes it easy to experiment with new VM features that would be too difficult or expensive to implement otherwise. For example it implements full hotswap capability that lets you arbitrarily redefine code and data on the fly. Espresso can also fully self-host recursively without limit, meaning you can achieve something like what's described in the paper by running Espresso on top of Espresso.

I'm also using GraalVM if that's of any help.

Quarkus is one of Java frameworks for microservices development and cloud-native deployment. It is developed as container-first stack and working with GraalVM and HotSpot virtual machines (VM).

Apologies, I didn't mean to imply DCEVM went poof, just that I was sad it didn't make it into OpenJDK so one need not do JDK silliness between the production one and the "debugging one" since my experience is that's an absolutely stellar way to produce Heisenbugs

And I'll be straight: Graal scares me 'cause Oracle but I just checked and it looks to the casual observer that it's straight-up GPLv2 now so maybe my fears need revisiting: https://github.com/oracle/graal/blob/vm-23.1.0/LICENSE

> to be compiled to a single executable is a strength that Java does not have

I think this is very outdated claim: https://www.graalvm.org/

https://github.com/oracle/graal/issues/7182