discussion
racket
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- | GNU General Public License v3.0 or later |
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discussion
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Retro: A Modern, Pragmatic Forth
> I would love a Forth with a type system. I don't know if that is heretical [...].
Mitch Bradley (of Open Firmware fame) thinks it’s old hat[1], so guess not. (He also thinks it won’t work though.) In general, people have tried a lot of times; there’s a number of postfix Lisps with type systems—Kitten mentioned elsethread, ActorForth[2], etc.; a low-level Forth, as in untyped cells on stack and no automatic memory management, I don’t think has been done to completeness (IIRC either Forth, Inc. or MPE have a standing offer for any that’s able to process their legacy code), but then C wouldn’t be complete by that standard either (and Rust far too limiting).
Honestly I’m not sure how well it would work—in C, you get a great deal of utility out of compound types, and classic cell-oriented Forth kind of sucks at even mildly complex datastructures—they are certainly possible, but being unable to manipulate them as values on the stack makes things quite unnatural. (And that’s where I draw the line of “postfix Lisps” like PostScript rather than Forths, as such manipulation doesn’t seem feasible without some sort of automatic memory management.)
[1] https://github.com/ForthHub/discussion/issues/79
[2] https://github.com/ActorForth/ActorForth
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Making my own forth implementation
It’s not the minimum set of words you need, but it is practical. (This thread for example talks about a practical set of 32 words as a minimal starting set, and an impractical set of 7 which is 708 times slower haha https://github.com/ForthHub/discussion/issues/92 )
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Bunch of questions about forth
Also concerning the point 1, ForthHub/discussions should be also mentioned. A Forth implementation of an FFI to Java is discussed there now.
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Why no 2TO to pair with 2VALUE?
Have a look at the discussion "VALUE and TO" on GitHub/ForthHub.
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Dear Sir, You Have Built a Compiler
With respect you've ignored the point I was making. There exist several Forth engines with native code-compilation, for instance VFX Forth, SwiftForth, and iForth.
> Typically the C version outperformed the Forth version by 3:1 or better, and I would not have known how to bridge that gap.
With a threaded-code Forth interpreter I'd expect the C version to outperform it by something closer to 5:1, so 3:1 doesn't sound too bad. The only way you can close the gap is with good quality native-code compilation.
> Nowadays with far larger caches Forth might do better, I haven't really worked with it for years.
It's interesting how advanced in CPU architecture change the relative performance of the different threading strategies. This has been nicely studied by the gforth folks. [0][1] Threaded-code interpreters still easily lose to optimising native-code compilers though, [2] and I expect they always will.
More on how Forth collides with low-level CPU matters: [3][4][5]
[0] https://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/threading/
[1] https://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/threaded-code.html
[2] https://github.com/ForthHub/discussion/issues/88#issuecommen...
[3] The Behavior of Efficient Virtual Machine Interpreters on Modern Architectures - https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.12...
[4] Branch Prediction and the Performance of Interpreters -
racket
- Racket Language
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Racket–the Language-Oriented Programming Language–version 8.12 is now available
Racket—the Language-Oriented Programming Language—version 8.12 is now available from https://racket-lang.org
See https://racket.discourse.group/t/racket-v8-12-is-now-availab... for the release announcement and highlights.
Thank you to the many people who contributed to this release!
Feedback Welcome
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Racket version 8.11.1 is now available
Racket version 8.11.1 is now available from https://racket-lang.org/
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Ask HN: Does anyone Lisp without Emacs?
Racket (https://racket-lang.org) has an IDE (DrRacket) which isn't EMACS. ARC (which powers hacker news) is (was?) written in Racket.
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Douglas Crockford, author of ‘Javascript: the good parts’ and ‘How Javascript works’ will be giving the keynote presentation From Here To Lambda And Back Again at the thirteenth RacketCon.
Nice! Repeating a comment I just made on HN: I signed up for RacketCon, will be joining remotely. I am looking forward to it a lot. Usually I use the Racket language perhaps for 10% of my personal projects, but I am currently writing a Racket AI book, so all things Racket are of current interest. Past RacketCons have been a lot of fun. I usually use Common Lisp, but Racket is batteries included Scheme, and more, and is a very pleasant language and ecosystem. Just in case you don’t have Racket installed: https://racket-lang.org/
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Douglas Crockford to Keynote 'From Here to Lambda and Back Again' at Racke
I signed up for RacketCon, joining remotely. I am looking forward to it a lot. Usually I use the Racket language perhaps for 10% of my personal projects, but I am currently writing a Racket AI book, so all things Racket are of current interest.
Past RacketCons have been a lot of fun.
I usually use Common Lisp, but Racket is batteries included Scheme, and more, and is a very pleasant language and ecosystem. Just in case you don’t have Racket installed: https://racket-lang.org/
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Ask HN: What is the most suitable Scheme implementation to learn today?
I'd suggest Racket (https://racket-lang.org) which is a batteries-included language environment that includes scheme and has a lot of high-quality documentation.
Guile (https://www.gnu.org/software/guile/) isn't quite as learner-focused but is another great choice.
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What Programming Languages are Best for Kids?
How did I get to the bottom of the page and not ONE person has recommended racket?
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Setting up a Scheme coding environment in VS code?
The Racket fork of CS supports Apple Silicon natively, and can be installed independently: https://github.com/racket/racket/blob/master/racket/src/ChezScheme/BUILDING Chez adds a few features (threads, ffi, ...) to R6RS; there is a useful combined index to TSPL4 and the CS User Guide at http://cisco.github.io/ChezScheme/csug9.5/csug_1.html
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Is SICP an overkill for a 14 year old?
If you're using SICP in Scheme (or are you doing the JS version?) then you may want to look at How to Design Programs. It uses Racket which is a Scheme descendent so much of the language you've learned in SICP will work in it without issue. It also has a pretty good set of GUI and drawing capabilities you can find through the Racket docs page and will use some of with HTDP.
What are some alternatives?
gale - Strongly-typed, minimal-ish, stack-based development at storm-force speed.
Visual Studio Code - Visual Studio Code
raillisp - A fast and portable lisp implemented in forth
clojure - The Clojure programming language
ESP32forth - FORTH developments for ESP32
nannou - A Creative Coding Framework for Rust.
waforth - Small but complete dynamic Forth Interpreter/Compiler for and in WebAssembly
antlr-tsql
the-power-of-prolog - Introduction to modern Prolog
babashka - Native, fast starting Clojure interpreter for scripting
kitten - A statically typed concatenative systems programming language.
coalton - Coalton is an efficient, statically typed functional programming language that supercharges Common Lisp.