discussion
ESP32forth
discussion | ESP32forth | |
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5 | 10 | |
113 | 44 | |
0.0% | - | |
0.0 | 9.6 | |
about 2 years ago | 19 days ago | |
Forth | ||
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discussion
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Retro: A Modern, Pragmatic Forth
> I would love a Forth with a type system. I don't know if that is heretical [...].
Mitch Bradley (of Open Firmware fame) thinks it’s old hat[1], so guess not. (He also thinks it won’t work though.) In general, people have tried a lot of times; there’s a number of postfix Lisps with type systems—Kitten mentioned elsethread, ActorForth[2], etc.; a low-level Forth, as in untyped cells on stack and no automatic memory management, I don’t think has been done to completeness (IIRC either Forth, Inc. or MPE have a standing offer for any that’s able to process their legacy code), but then C wouldn’t be complete by that standard either (and Rust far too limiting).
Honestly I’m not sure how well it would work—in C, you get a great deal of utility out of compound types, and classic cell-oriented Forth kind of sucks at even mildly complex datastructures—they are certainly possible, but being unable to manipulate them as values on the stack makes things quite unnatural. (And that’s where I draw the line of “postfix Lisps” like PostScript rather than Forths, as such manipulation doesn’t seem feasible without some sort of automatic memory management.)
[1] https://github.com/ForthHub/discussion/issues/79
[2] https://github.com/ActorForth/ActorForth
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Making my own forth implementation
It’s not the minimum set of words you need, but it is practical. (This thread for example talks about a practical set of 32 words as a minimal starting set, and an impractical set of 7 which is 708 times slower haha https://github.com/ForthHub/discussion/issues/92 )
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Bunch of questions about forth
Also concerning the point 1, ForthHub/discussions should be also mentioned. A Forth implementation of an FFI to Java is discussed there now.
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Why no 2TO to pair with 2VALUE?
Have a look at the discussion "VALUE and TO" on GitHub/ForthHub.
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Dear Sir, You Have Built a Compiler
With respect you've ignored the point I was making. There exist several Forth engines with native code-compilation, for instance VFX Forth, SwiftForth, and iForth.
> Typically the C version outperformed the Forth version by 3:1 or better, and I would not have known how to bridge that gap.
With a threaded-code Forth interpreter I'd expect the C version to outperform it by something closer to 5:1, so 3:1 doesn't sound too bad. The only way you can close the gap is with good quality native-code compilation.
> Nowadays with far larger caches Forth might do better, I haven't really worked with it for years.
It's interesting how advanced in CPU architecture change the relative performance of the different threading strategies. This has been nicely studied by the gforth folks. [0][1] Threaded-code interpreters still easily lose to optimising native-code compilers though, [2] and I expect they always will.
More on how Forth collides with low-level CPU matters: [3][4][5]
[0] https://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/threading/
[1] https://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/threaded-code.html
[2] https://github.com/ForthHub/discussion/issues/88#issuecommen...
[3] The Behavior of Efficient Virtual Machine Interpreters on Modern Architectures - https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.12...
[4] Branch Prediction and the Performance of Interpreters -
ESP32forth
- The Great Book for ESP32forth
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Bunch of questions about forth
Example of code for ESP322forth: https://github.com/MPETREMANN11/ESP32forth/blob/main/displays/MAX7219/32x8ledsGraphics.txt
- Display graphics on 32x8 LED matrix
- Raw Load for code in /spiffs/ files
- strings management for ESP32forth
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reverse bits order of 32 bits interger in XTENSA assembler
NEW LISTING Reverse bits of 32 bits integer, in XTENSA assembler with ESP32forth: https://github.com/MPETREMANN11/ESP32forth/blob/main/XTENSA/REVBITS.txt
- convert infix to postfix notation for ESP32Forth
- ESP32forth: time utilities - days months
- Compile chinese characters with ESP32forth
- ESP32forth: Display text sprite with DOS characters
What are some alternatives?
gale - Strongly-typed, minimal-ish, stack-based development at storm-force speed.
discussion - For general discussion over Project V development and usage.
raillisp - A fast and portable lisp implemented in forth
b1fipl - A Bestiary of Single-File Implementations of Programming Languages
waforth - Small but complete dynamic Forth Interpreter/Compiler for and in WebAssembly
the-power-of-prolog - Introduction to modern Prolog
kitten - A statically typed concatenative systems programming language.
forthlisp - A Small Lisp in Forth
swapforth - Swapforth is a cross-platform ANS Forth
Mako - A simple virtual game console