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Discussion Alternatives
Similar projects and alternatives to discussion
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WorkOS
The modern identity platform for B2B SaaS. The APIs are flexible and easy-to-use, supporting authentication, user identity, and complex enterprise features like SSO and SCIM provisioning.
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InfluxDB
Power Real-Time Data Analytics at Scale. Get real-time insights from all types of time series data with InfluxDB. Ingest, query, and analyze billions of data points in real-time with unbounded cardinality.
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ActorForth
A strongly typed Forth-like language ultimately intended to target cryptoledgers and support an Actor concurrency model. Initially implemented in Python, now switched to modern C++.
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SaaSHub
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discussion reviews and mentions
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Retro: A Modern, Pragmatic Forth
> I would love a Forth with a type system. I don't know if that is heretical [...].
Mitch Bradley (of Open Firmware fame) thinks it’s old hat[1], so guess not. (He also thinks it won’t work though.) In general, people have tried a lot of times; there’s a number of postfix Lisps with type systems—Kitten mentioned elsethread, ActorForth[2], etc.; a low-level Forth, as in untyped cells on stack and no automatic memory management, I don’t think has been done to completeness (IIRC either Forth, Inc. or MPE have a standing offer for any that’s able to process their legacy code), but then C wouldn’t be complete by that standard either (and Rust far too limiting).
Honestly I’m not sure how well it would work—in C, you get a great deal of utility out of compound types, and classic cell-oriented Forth kind of sucks at even mildly complex datastructures—they are certainly possible, but being unable to manipulate them as values on the stack makes things quite unnatural. (And that’s where I draw the line of “postfix Lisps” like PostScript rather than Forths, as such manipulation doesn’t seem feasible without some sort of automatic memory management.)
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Making my own forth implementation
It’s not the minimum set of words you need, but it is practical. (This thread for example talks about a practical set of 32 words as a minimal starting set, and an impractical set of 7 which is 708 times slower haha https://github.com/ForthHub/discussion/issues/92 )
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Bunch of questions about forth
Also concerning the point 1, ForthHub/discussions should be also mentioned. A Forth implementation of an FFI to Java is discussed there now.
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Why no 2TO to pair with 2VALUE?
Have a look at the discussion "VALUE and TO" on GitHub/ForthHub.
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Dear Sir, You Have Built a Compiler
With respect you've ignored the point I was making. There exist several Forth engines with native code-compilation, for instance VFX Forth, SwiftForth, and iForth.
> Typically the C version outperformed the Forth version by 3:1 or better, and I would not have known how to bridge that gap.
With a threaded-code Forth interpreter I'd expect the C version to outperform it by something closer to 5:1, so 3:1 doesn't sound too bad. The only way you can close the gap is with good quality native-code compilation.
> Nowadays with far larger caches Forth might do better, I haven't really worked with it for years.
It's interesting how advanced in CPU architecture change the relative performance of the different threading strategies. This has been nicely studied by the gforth folks. [0][1] Threaded-code interpreters still easily lose to optimising native-code compilers though, [2] and I expect they always will.
More on how Forth collides with low-level CPU matters: [3][4][5]
[0] https://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/threading/
[1] https://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/threaded-code.html
[2] https://github.com/ForthHub/discussion/issues/88#issuecommen...
[3] The Behavior of Efficient Virtual Machine Interpreters on Modern Architectures - https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.12...
[4] Branch Prediction and the Performance of Interpreters -
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A note from our sponsor - WorkOS
workos.com | 19 Apr 2024
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