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Fennel
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Did we lose our way in making efficient software? – ~30 MB doc file vs. browser
It's interesting: minimal software is out there, but folks don't tend to choose it. I spend a fair amount of time thinking about how to be conservative in my dependencies, and this encourages a lightweight stack that tends to perform pretty well. These days, I'm favoring tools like Lua, SQLite, Fennel[0], Althttpd[1], Fossil[2], and the Mako Server[3] and find that great, lightweight, stable, efficient software is to be had, for free, but you have to go a bit off the beaten path. This isn't stuff you hear about on Stack Overflow.
In terms of frontend, which the post focuses on (Google Docs and a 30MB doc), I guess I'm conflicted. While I tend to favor native apps + web pages, I'm also a daily Tiddlywiki user, and I really think web apps have their place (heck, one idea I'm working on is a lightweight local server that lets you run web apps like Tiddlywiki). But without a doubt, Tiddlywiki is more resource intensive than Emacs (my go-to for notetaking when I'm not on TW). My tab for a 6MB Tiddlywiki file uses 155MB of RAM, and my (heavily customized, dozens of open buffers) Emacs session uses 88MB. So I do think the author has a good point.
[0]: https://fennel-lang.org/
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Pluto, a Modern Lua Dialect
Eh it's not just luajit and luajit didn't create that problem either. It's a symptom of lua actually succeeding at its design goal of being easily embedded as an extension language. A significant number of incompatible runtimes are more popular than the most recent puc lua, including I believe the older official lua 5.2 released in 2011.
I've done a fair bit of professional lua development and I don't think I've ever written standalone up-to-date puc lua except maybe for some tooling & scripts. It's such a small language and used in such a way that the runtime, distribution method, and available APIs have much more impact on your use (and compatibility) than the version.
Virtually everyone shipping a lua environment is also shipping changes to it that make it a unique target, if only extensions to the standard library. This is why I think syntax layer-only approach like fennel's is the correct choice for improving on lua. It mirrors lua's runtime semantics exactly, and allows you to access the implementation peculiars on their own terms and so can just be run on time of any lua system.
https://fennel-lang.org
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LÖVE: a framework to make 2D games in Lua
Just learned about https://fennel-lang.org/ , could have probably used that as well to avoid Lua.
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The Bipolar Lisp Programmer
> I’m positive that there is a Lispy language out there (actually in existence, or the aether) that is appropriate for embedded work, but the constraints of the target make it difficult to envision.
Perhaps Fennel* fits the bill?
* https://fennel-lang.org/
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The Future of the Vim Project
I've also seen neovim plugins written in fennel [0], so if you want something lispy, that's possible now.
[0]: a Lisp that compiles to Lua, https://github.com/bakpakin/Fennel
- Qual a linguagem que vocês mais gostam de programar?
- Can I use elixir as the scripting language of my game engine?
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TimL: Clojure-like Lisp dialect that runs on and compiles down to Vimscript
Something similar: Fennel (https://fennel-lang.org/) is a lisp that compiles into Lua, which nvim can use as plugins, so you can write nvim plugins in a lisp. Aniseed (https://github.com/Olical/aniseed) makes this really easy.
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Announcing automation-service: write and schedule home automation scripts in Lua
If you want a more FP language on the Lua runtime, you might be interested in Fennel. I wrote a post about adding Fennel compiler to a hslua interpreter a while back, which might be useful for you.
- 916 Days of Emacs
hy
- A dialect of Lisp that's embedded in Python
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How to Write a (Lisp) Interpreter (In Python)
Not exactly the same (doesn't embed into the source like this did), but I believe Hylang[0] is the best Lisp package available for modern Python.
[0] https://github.com/hylang/hy
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Sapling: A highly experimental vi-inspired editor where you edit code, not text
Isn't that a bit what hy (https://hylang.org/) tries to do ? AIUI it is a lisp interacting directly with the AST of Python, allowing seamless interop: Python modules can be used from hy and vice versa, everything is transparent.
- Hylang, a Lisp dialect embedded in Python
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Hissp
I’ve been keeping loose tabs on this and Hy[1] for a while, but I’ve had some trouble figuring out the major differences between them and the use-cases for either. Would love to see an in-depth comparison in the form of a blog post sometime (though maybe the answer here is to do the research and write one up myself).
1: https://hylang.org
- Hy
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Ask HN: Is SICP/HtDP still worth reading in 2023? Any alternatives?
“Python is for scientists. Lisp is for engineers.”
Then what does that make Hy language?
https://hylang.org/
Re Languages with lots of example code and LLM’s
With translators or things like Hy lang, one could get the LLM’s to solve your problem in Python before converting it to another form. Then, you just need a translator. If lacking one, it’s easy to translate by hand.
The practicality of this concept will probably vary by use case. My experiments had GPT doing sketching, implementations, boilerplate, and even porting Python to Rust. A legally-clear LLM trained on multiple languages could probably be fine-tuned to do Python to LISP conversions. If not, Hy might be a stepping stone, too.
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Sharing Saturday #469
You could say so: I've been maintaining the compiler since 2016 ;). Infinitesimal Quest 2 + ε (SQ) exists more to advance Hy than for its own sake.
- What if: python without commas
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Best implementation of CL for learning purposes
If you are using Python - you might find Hylang (https://hylang.org) interesting.
What are some alternatives?
janet - A dynamic language and bytecode vm
hissp - It's Python with a Lissp.
urn - Yet another Lisp variant which compiles to Lua
babashka - Native, fast starting Clojure interpreter for scripting
nvim-lspconfig - Quickstart configs for Nvim LSP
eso-light-attack-weave - This is a macro for the game Elder Scrolls Online
Lua-RTOS-ESP32 - Lua RTOS for ESP32
Carp - A statically typed lisp, without a GC, for real-time applications.
lua-languages - Languages that compile to Lua
hebigo - 蛇語(HEH-bee-go): An indentation-based skin for Hissp.
webassembly-lua - Write and compile WebAssembly code with Lua
awesome-clojure-likes - Curated list of Clojure-like programming languages.