CIEL VS cligen

and for CL: https://github.com/ciel-lang/CIEL/ (pre-alpha) CL with many batteries included (json, csv, http, CLI parser…) so the scripts start fast.

As a CL addict, this isn't unlike Babashka: fast-starting CL scripting with batteries included. https://github.com/ciel-lang/CIEL (alpha) (otherwise the solution is to build a binary)

> lots of interoperability libraries

That's true. For cases when you want to start with a good set of libraries (json, csv, databases, HTTP client, CLI args, language extensions…), I am putting up this collection together: https://github.com/ciel-lang/CIEL/ It can be used as a normal Quicklisp library, or as a core image (it then starts up instantly) or as a binary.

It can run scripts nearly instantly too (so it isn't unlike Babashka). We are ironing out the details, not at v1.0 yet.

> handling a runtime error by just fixing the broken code--in-place, without any restarts [from the blog]

Also (second shameless plug) I should have illustrated this here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBBS4FeY7XM

We run a long and intensive computation and, bad luck, we get an error in the last step. Instead of re-running everything again from zero, we get the interactive debugger, we go to the erroneous line, we compile the fixed function, we come back to the debugger, we choose a point on the stackframe to resume execution from (the last step), and we see our program pass. Hope this illustrates the feature well!

check out CIEL, one of it's goal is to be a quality terminal repl

I've been doing the protohackers challenges in common lisp to learn, and I ran into a problem that is possibly a bug in the socket library, or much more likely in my misunderstanding it. At any rate the best workaround a found seems pretty ugly, so can anyone advice what would be the cleanest way to solve it, and how we're supposed to deal with sockets? The problem is basically make a tcp server, that forwards all connections to an upstream server, and does a regex find and replace on all the traffic that passes through. Here's my working solution. I haven't learned much how asdf and packages work yet, I am just using CIEL which is SBCL (2.2.9.debian) with a bunch of libraries already loaded, I think if you load usocket, usocket-server, cl-ppcre, and bordeaux-threads it should run. The program is simple, I just forward all traffic from the client to the upstream doing regex replacement on each line, and spawn a thread that handles forwarding all traffic from the upstream to the client with the regex replacement. The issue is that when the client disconnects, my program doesn't disconnect from the upstream, even when I call (close upstream) and (socket-close socket). Before closing the socket or stream, the connection shows as established in ss -tp and as belonging to the sbcl process. After calling close on the socket and stream, the connection still shows as established, just it no longer shows as belonging to the sbcl process, and tcpdump shows that the 4-way termination handshake is not sent. After killing the background thread that is also reading the same socket, the 4-way termination is sent, and the connection is closed. It seems like calling close on the stream or socket should close it? Are sockets or streams not safe to share between threads? Is there a cleaner way to handle closing the upstream connection when the client disconnects rather than calling destroy thread?

I quite agree, so I'm making a meta-library to have useful libraries available out of the box: https://github.com/ciel-lang/CIEL/ It's CL, batteries included. You can use it as a library, as a core CL image (loads up faster), and as a binary to have a REPL, and to run scripts:

    ciel --script myscript.lisp

No, we have to build a binary, which starts up super quickly.

I began to put together a "distribution" of useful CL libraries for everyday tasks: https://github.com/ciel-lang/CIEL/ It comes as:

- a lisp core, which you can use in your editor setup instead of sbcl or ccl, the advantage is that it loads instantly with all these libraries built-in (instead of quickloading all of them when needed)

Hi there. I'd enjoy help on anything web development for openbookstore: https://github.com/OpenBookStore/openbookstore (especially now: setting up i18n) Or, we could work on the terminal REPL experience for the CIEL meta-package: https://github.com/ciel-lang/CIEL/ We could use a better base like cl-repl or better yet, Lish.

There is also generating the whole thing from a function signature (e.g. https://github.com/c-blake/cligen ) since then CLauthors need not learn a new spec language, but then CLauthors must add back in helpful usage metadata/semantics and still need to learn a library API (but I like how those two things can be "gradual"). It's a hard space in which to find perfection, but I wish you luck in your attempt!

cligen also allows End-CL-users to adjust colorization of --help output like https://github.com/c-blake/cligen/blob/master/screenshots/di... using something like https://github.com/c-blake/cligen/wiki/Dark-BG-Config-File

Last I knew, the argparse backing most Py CLI solutions did not support such easier (for many) to read help text, but the PyUniverse is too vast to be sure without much related work searching.

20 milliseconds? On my 7 year old Linux box, this little Nim program https://github.com/c-blake/bu/blob/main/wsz.nim runs to completion in 275 microseconds when fully statically linked with musl libc on Linux. That's with a stripped environment (with `env -i`). It takes more like 318 microseconds with my usual 54 environment variables. The program only does about 17 system calls, though.

Additionally, https://github.com/c-blake/cligen makes decent CLI tools a real breeze. If you like some of Go's qualities but the language seems too limited, you might like Nim: https://nim-lang.org. I generally find getting good performance much less of a challenge with Nim, but Nim is undeniably less well known with a smaller ecosystem and less corporate backing.

If you find this article interesting and are curious about Nim then you would probably also be curious about https://github.com/c-blake/cligen

That allows adding just 1-line to a module to add a pretty complete CLI and then a string per parameter to properly document options (assuming an existing API using keyword arguments).

It's also not hard to compile & link a static ELF binary with Nim.. I do it with MUSL libc on Linux all the time. I just toss into my ~/.config/nim/nim.cfg:

    @if musl:  # make nim c -d:musl .. foo static-link `foo` with musl

Sure. No problem.

Even Windows has popen these days. There are some tiny popenr/popenw wrappers in https://github.com/c-blake/cligen/blob/master/cligen/osUt.ni...

Depending upon how balanced work is on either side of the pipe, you usually can even get parallel speed-up on multicore with almost no work. For example, there is no need to use quote-escaped CSV parsing libraries when you just read from a popen()d translator program producing an easier format: https://github.com/c-blake/nio/blob/main/utils/c2tsv.nim

Nim is terse yet general and can be made even more so with effort. E.g., You can gin up a little framework that is even more terse than awk yet statically typed and trivially convertible to run much faster like https://github.com/c-blake/bu/blob/main/doc/rp.md

You can statically introspect code to then generate related/translated ASTs to create nearly frictionless helper facilities like https://github.com/c-blake/cligen .

You can do all of this without any real run-time speed sacrifices, depending upon the level of effort you put in / your expertise. Since it generates C/C++ or Javascript you get all the abilities of backend compilers almost out of the box, like profile-guided-optimization or for JS JIT compilation.

It's more that those tools were what come to mind when I specifically think of my exposure to the existence of rust. Its perhaps not that the tools were there, but that they were well known (and known for being written in rust).

Anecdatapoint - I've never heard of literally a single one of the utilities listed on the bu page.

Regarding cligen, right from the start clap wins on producing idiomatic output. Compare: https://github.com/c-blake/cligen#cligen-a-native-api-inferr...

    Usage:

cool example would be this which is a CLI generation library. It lets you describe command line interfacs simply using function signatures

>Does nim have anything as polished and performant as clap and serde?

"Polished" and "high quality" are more subjective/implicitly about adoption, IMO. "Performant" has many dimensions. I just tested the Nim https://github.com/c-blake/cligen vs clap: cligen used 5X less object file space (with all size optimization tweaks enabled in both), 20% less run-time memory for large argument lists, and the same run-time per argument (with march=native equivalents on both, within statistical noise). cligen has many features - "did you mean?/suggestions", color generated help and all that - I do not see obvious feature in clap docs missing in cligen. The Nim binary serde showing is unlikely as good but there are like 10 JSON packages and that seems maybe your primary concern.

More to add color your point than disagree (and follow up on my "adoption") - your ideas about polish, quality, docs, etc. are part of feedback loop(s) you mentioned. More users => Users complain (What is confusing? What is missing? etc.) => things get fixed/cleaned up/improved => More users. Besides "performant" being multi-dimensional, the feedback loop is more of a "cyclic graph". :-) While I probably prefer Nim as much or more as @netbioserror, I am not too shocked by the mindshare capture. It seems to happen every 5..10 years or so in prog.langs.

While many of your points are not invalid, tech is also a highly hype-driven & fad-driven realm. In my experience, the more experience with this meta-feature that someone has, the more skeptical they are of the latest thing (more rounds of regret, etc.). Also, that feedback graph is not a pure good. Things can get too popular too quickly with near permanent consequences. ipv4 got popular so quickly that we are still mostly stuck on it 40 years later as ipv6 struggles for penetration. Whatever your favorite PL is, it may also grow features too fast.

You are welcome. Thanks are too rarely offered. :-)

You may also be interested in word stemming ( such as used by snowball stemmer in https://github.com/c-blake/nimsearch ) or other NLP techniques, but I don't know how internationalized/multi-lingual that stuff is, but conceptually you might want "series of stemmed words" to be the content fragments of interest.

Similarity scores have many applications. Weights on graph of cancelled downloads ranked by size might be one. :)

Of course, for your specific "truncation" problem, you might also be able to just do an edit distance against the much smaller filenames and compare data prefixes in files or use a SHA256 of a content-based first slice. ( There are edit distance algos in Nim in https://github.com/c-blake/cligen/blob/master/cligen/textUt.... as well as in https://github.com/c-blake/suggest ).

Or, you could do a little program like ndup/sh/ndup to create a "mirrored file tree" of such content-based slices then you could use any true duplicate-file finder (like https://github.com/c-blake/bu/blob/main/dups.nim) on the little signature system to identify duplicates and go from path suffixes in those clusters back to the main filesystem. Of course, a single KV store within one or two files would be more efficient than thousands of tiny files. There are many possibilities.