CIEL VS quicklisp-client

and for CL: https://github.com/ciel-lang/CIEL/ (pre-alpha) CL with many batteries included (json, csv, http, CLI parser…) so the scripts start fast.

As a CL addict, this isn't unlike Babashka: fast-starting CL scripting with batteries included. https://github.com/ciel-lang/CIEL (alpha) (otherwise the solution is to build a binary)

> lots of interoperability libraries

That's true. For cases when you want to start with a good set of libraries (json, csv, databases, HTTP client, CLI args, language extensions…), I am putting up this collection together: https://github.com/ciel-lang/CIEL/ It can be used as a normal Quicklisp library, or as a core image (it then starts up instantly) or as a binary.

It can run scripts nearly instantly too (so it isn't unlike Babashka). We are ironing out the details, not at v1.0 yet.

> handling a runtime error by just fixing the broken code--in-place, without any restarts [from the blog]

Also (second shameless plug) I should have illustrated this here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBBS4FeY7XM

We run a long and intensive computation and, bad luck, we get an error in the last step. Instead of re-running everything again from zero, we get the interactive debugger, we go to the erroneous line, we compile the fixed function, we come back to the debugger, we choose a point on the stackframe to resume execution from (the last step), and we see our program pass. Hope this illustrates the feature well!

check out CIEL, one of it's goal is to be a quality terminal repl

I've been doing the protohackers challenges in common lisp to learn, and I ran into a problem that is possibly a bug in the socket library, or much more likely in my misunderstanding it. At any rate the best workaround a found seems pretty ugly, so can anyone advice what would be the cleanest way to solve it, and how we're supposed to deal with sockets? The problem is basically make a tcp server, that forwards all connections to an upstream server, and does a regex find and replace on all the traffic that passes through. Here's my working solution. I haven't learned much how asdf and packages work yet, I am just using CIEL which is SBCL (2.2.9.debian) with a bunch of libraries already loaded, I think if you load usocket, usocket-server, cl-ppcre, and bordeaux-threads it should run. The program is simple, I just forward all traffic from the client to the upstream doing regex replacement on each line, and spawn a thread that handles forwarding all traffic from the upstream to the client with the regex replacement. The issue is that when the client disconnects, my program doesn't disconnect from the upstream, even when I call (close upstream) and (socket-close socket). Before closing the socket or stream, the connection shows as established in ss -tp and as belonging to the sbcl process. After calling close on the socket and stream, the connection still shows as established, just it no longer shows as belonging to the sbcl process, and tcpdump shows that the 4-way termination handshake is not sent. After killing the background thread that is also reading the same socket, the 4-way termination is sent, and the connection is closed. It seems like calling close on the stream or socket should close it? Are sockets or streams not safe to share between threads? Is there a cleaner way to handle closing the upstream connection when the client disconnects rather than calling destroy thread?

I quite agree, so I'm making a meta-library to have useful libraries available out of the box: https://github.com/ciel-lang/CIEL/ It's CL, batteries included. You can use it as a library, as a core CL image (loads up faster), and as a binary to have a REPL, and to run scripts:

    ciel --script myscript.lisp

No, we have to build a binary, which starts up super quickly.

I began to put together a "distribution" of useful CL libraries for everyday tasks: https://github.com/ciel-lang/CIEL/ It comes as:

- a lisp core, which you can use in your editor setup instead of sbcl or ccl, the advantage is that it loads instantly with all these libraries built-in (instead of quickloading all of them when needed)

Hi there. I'd enjoy help on anything web development for openbookstore: https://github.com/OpenBookStore/openbookstore (especially now: setting up i18n) Or, we could work on the terminal REPL experience for the CIEL meta-package: https://github.com/ciel-lang/CIEL/ We could use a better base like cl-repl or better yet, Lish.

Yes, that's clear.

I'm not very familiar with how quicklisp works. I thought that “updates once a month” implies a separate update channel (distribution, ...).

Looking at the relevant issue, https://github.com/quicklisp/quicklisp-client/issues/167 , it's not clear that even hashes are in place.

I recently found out that most Nix fetchers use https, but do not actually do verification (`curl --insecure` or equivalent libcurl settings). Channel updates do verify and include hashes, so the overall chain is authenticated.

The latest comment I see about this here from Oct. 2022 says they're working on it. There's also comment by the developer in 2016 saying want to improve the security soon, so it doesn't really seem this will actually happen soon. I realise making signature verification work cross platform in pure lisp without external dependencies isn't easy but from latest comment it seems they have that working, in a branch written 4 years ago? The simplest no-code solution is just since quicklisp is published every month or so, on each new update publish a file with sha256 hash of every package contained in quicklisp signed with same developer's pgp key they are already using to sign download of the initial quicklisp.lisp, yes then users if they care about security would have to manually download the file and verify signature every month or so but it's at least some solution that can be done now.

> That's what regular devs do, they don't even bother writing articles or commenting on HN :-)

I'll take the bait, and roll up several of my comments into one.

First, the support contract costs from the commercial vendors can make sense. It's one of the most expensive parts of software. We joke about fixing relatives' printers, but its not false. Support costs introduce a counter-balance.

Second, a message to everyone looking into or using QuickLisp, it uses http instead of https: https://github.com/quicklisp/quicklisp-client/issues/167

You can patch your version to fix this. I'd also recommend adding firewall rules to deny in case your patches roll back. And any other mitigation. Or stricter policies, such as not using it, if it makes sense for your organization.

And the AI bots? I hope there aren't people herding them who don't want to, that's how you get unloving brats and a crappy world.

I found this github issue about it, open since 2018: https://github.com/quicklisp/quicklisp-client/issues/167

I agree 100% about needing to test and audit for security. But based on the information I've seen and public activity in repos, I assumed Xach was going for home-grown CL implementation. https://github.com/quicklisp/quicklisp-client/blob/pgp/quicklisp/openpgp.lisp