star
oil
star | oil | |
---|---|---|
24 | 235 | |
116 | 2,734 | |
- | 0.9% | |
5.1 | 9.9 | |
6 months ago | about 8 hours ago | |
Haxe | Python | |
Apache License 2.0 | GNU General Public License v3.0 or later |
Stars - the number of stars that a project has on GitHub. Growth - month over month growth in stars.
Activity is a relative number indicating how actively a project is being developed. Recent commits have higher weight than older ones.
For example, an activity of 9.0 indicates that a project is amongst the top 10% of the most actively developed projects that we are tracking.
star
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The 3 languages question
my own language Star! enjoyability is one of my main goals with the language, along with the "powerful, productive, and predictable" line
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Language Design: Against Mixed-cased Type Names
This is actually done by several bootstrapped languages, such as Crystal, Nim, Raku, and even my own language Star
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Your language's favorite MINOR feature?
In Star, commas and newlines are analogous everywhere, even inside array literals. This actually solves the issue of trailing commas by not needing commas at all
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Building a new .NET language, doing to C# what Kotlin did to Java
I really like Nemerle's OOP+FP hybrid model, and I've taken a lot of it to heart while designing my language Star, which is similar in spirit.
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extending enums
Most languages are afraid to for some reason, most likely because it "breaks tradition" or whatever. The only languages I'm aware of that allow this are Hack (for C-like enums) and my language Star (for both C-like and OCaml-like enums)
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Is there a language with structural type constraints for variants and records?
It's currently a work-in-progress, mainly due to subtyping issues with generics (which I'm honestly too lazy to fix rn, focusing on other stuff first). the code is located here, although be aware that it's a bit messy lol
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November 2021 monthly "What are you working on?" thread
Making lots of progress on Star's typechecker, which has been very difficult due to its expansive type system. Although still not completely finished or useable, it does at least work a bit. Currently need to implement type variable expansion/substitution, "lazy" type refinement (because I have no clue what else to call it), and some basic support for existentials
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Initially-nullable types
I think this is referred to as partial or lazy initialization. I have this feature in my own language Star (which us null-safe), but I don't have an actual null literal for this purpose
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Programming Language Checklist
Sure I guess, here's one for Star: ``` You appear to be advocating a new: [X] functional [X] imperative [X] object-oriented [ ] procedural [ ] stack-based [X] "multi-paradigm" [ ] lazy [ ] eager [X] statically-typed [ ] dynamically-typed [ ] pure [X] impure [ ] non-hygienic [ ] visual [X] beginner-friendly [ ] non-programmer-friendly [ ] completely incomprehensible programming language. Your language will not work. Here is why it will not work.
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Typechecking new type system features
Hello, I'm the developer of the Star programming language, and I have some questions about how to typecheck several new/uncommon features that it has, and looking for feedback on it in general.
oil
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The life and times of an Abstract Syntax Tree
Some related references (on a somewhat messy wiki page) - https://github.com/oilshell/oil/wiki/Compact-AST-Representat...
Feel free to add others
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Autoconf makes me think we stopped evolving too soon
will prevent almost all of the "silent footguns".
YSH has strict:all and then a bunch of NEW features.
There's been good feedback recently, which has led to many concrete changes. So your experience can definitely influence the language! https://github.com/oilshell/oil/wiki/Where-To-Send-Feedback
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Basic Things
Regarding writing tools/tests/benchmarks in bash+Python, vs. writing tools in your main language:
I think we might eventually concede that something Debian-like is the “standard development environment” (at least for server side stuff, i.e. not iOS apps)
In this case, bash+Python is a non-issue. It works extremely reliably. That’s actually why I use it! Everything else seems to break, or it’s really slow (node.js is a very common alternative).
- Microsoft conceded this back in ~2017, by building Linux into their kernel with WSL, and providing Ubuntu on top
Yes bash + Python is a disaster on Windows (I have scars from it), but Microsoft agrees that the right place to solve that is in Windows :-)
- Every CI system runs Debian/Ubuntu
- Every hosting provider runs Debian/Ubuntu
- Every online dev env like gitpod.io provides Debian/Ubuntu
This is somewhat related to remote dev envs: https://lobste.rs/s/ucirlx/lapdev_self_hosted_remote_dev
One vision for https://www.oilshell.org/ is that the CI environment is the dev environment is the hosting environment.
Everything is just an equal node in a distributed system. BUT it’s more git like, in that you explicitly sync and work “locally”, wherever that is. You don’t have the network chatter and flakiness of “the cloud”.
Oils has a very large set of monotonically increasing properties too - https://www.oilshell.org/release/0.21.0/quality.html
All that is bash+Python that is run on every commit, and it’s extremely good at catching bugs and perf regressions.
I’m skeptical that any project has that level of quality automation written in pure Rust or Zig. More likely it’s a bunch of cloud services with YAML.
Also a bunch of “hard-coded” toolchains that you can’t script with bespoke code. Like some shell commands in your package.json, which is just a worse way of writing a shell script.
Our quality process is all self-hosted, in the repo, and runs on both Github Actions and sourcehut - https://www.oilshell.org/release/0.21.0/pub/metrics.wwz/line...
bash and Python runs perfectly on Github Actions and sourcehut, with zero change. Containers also do.
(Although we need to unify the CI and release, because the release runs on 2 different real hardware machines, while CI is cloud only.)
Also, a main point Oils is that bash now has another highly compatible, spec-driven implementation – OSH. Having 2 independent implementations is something newer languages don’t have.
(copy of lobste.rs comment)
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The secret weapon of Bash power users
in your bashrc to enable it. I've used it for probably ~18 years now.
It also works with https://www.oilshell.org/ since we use GNU readline. Just 'set -o vi' in ~/.config/oils/oshrc
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Pipexec – Handling pipe of commands like a single command
No other shell does that.
But I didn't know it was called MULTIOS until now. (I guess that's read "mult I/O's"? I have a hard time not reading it was multi-OS :) )
It seems a bit niche to be honest, but it's possible to support in Oils.
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Oils also uses Unix domain sockets already for the headless shell protocol
https://github.com/oilshell/oil/wiki/Headless-Mode
We could do something like dgsh, but so far I haven't seen a lot of uptake / demand. Every time it's mentioned, somebody kinda wants it, and then it kinda peters out again ... still possible though.
I think flat files work fine for a lot of use cases, and once you add streaming, you also want monitoring, more control over backpressure/queue sizes, etc.
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Show HN: Hancho – A simple and pleasant build system in ~500 lines of Python
which works well. You don't have to clean when rebuilding variants. IMO this is 100% essential for writing C++ these days. You need a bunch of test binaries, and all tests should be run with ASAN and UBSAN.
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I wrote a mini-bazel on top of Ninja with these features:
https://www.oilshell.org/blog/2022/10/garbage-collector.html...
So it's ~1700 lines, but for that you get the build macros like asdl_library() generating C++ and Python (the same as proto_library(), a schema language that generates code)
And it also correctly finds dependencies of code generators. So if you change a .py file that is imported by another .py file that is used to generated a C++ header, everything will work. That was one of the trickier bits, with Ninja implicit dependencies.
I also use the Bazel-target syntax like //core/process
This build file example mixes low level Ninja n.rule() and n.build() with high level r.cc_library() and so forth. I find this layering really does make it scale better for bigger projects
https://github.com/oilshell/oil/blob/master/asdl/NINJA_subgr...
Some more description - https://lobste.rs/s/qnb7xt/ninja_is_enough_build_system#c_tu...
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Re2c
This is sort of a category error...
re2c is a lexer generator, and YAML and Python are recursive/nested formats.
You can definitely use re2c to lex them, but it's not the whole solution.
I use it for everything possible in https://www.oilshell.org, and it's amazing. It really reduces the amount of fiddly C code you need to parse languages, and it drops in anywhere.
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Ask HN: Looking for a project to volunteer on? (February 2024)
SEEKING VOLUNTEERS - https://www.oilshell.org/ - https://github.com/oilshell/oil/
I'm looking for people to help fill out the "standard library" for Oils/YSH. We're implementing a shell for Python and JavaScript programmers who avoid shell!
On the surface, this is writing some very simple functions in typed Python. But I've realized that the hardest parts are specifying, TESTING, and documenting what the functions do.
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The most recent release announcement also asks for help - https://www.oilshell.org/blog/2024/01/release-0.19.0.html (long)
If you find all those details interesting (if maybe overwhelming), you might have a mind for language design, and could be a good person to help.
Surveying what Python and JavaScript do is very helpful, e.g. for the recent Str.replace() function, which is nontrivial (takes a regex or string, replacement template or string)
But there are also very simple methods to get started, like Dict.values() and List.indexOf(). Other people have already contributed code. Examples:
https://github.com/oilshell/oil/commit/58d847008427dba2e60fe...
https://github.com/oilshell/oil/commit/8f38ee36d01162593e935...
This can also be useful to tell if you'll have fun working on the project - https://github.com/oilshell/oil/wiki/Where-Contributors-Have...
More on #help-wanted on Zulip (requires login) - https://oilshell.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/417617-help-wa...
Please send a message on Github or Zulip! Or e-mail me andy at oilshell dot org.
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The rust project has a burnout problem
This is true, but then the corrolary is that new PRs need to come with this higher and rigorous level of test coverage.
And then that becomes a bit of a barrier to contribution -- that's a harness
I often write entirely new test harnesses for features, e.g. for https://www.oilshell.org, many of them linked here . All of these run in the CI - https://www.oilshell.org/release/latest/quality.html
The good thing is that it definitely helps me accept PRs faster. Current contributors are good at this kind of exhaustive testing, but many PRs aren't
- Unix as IDE: Introduction (2012)
What are some alternatives?
gaiman - Gaiman: Text based game engine and programming language
nushell - A new type of shell
starlight - JS engine in Rust
fish-shell - The user-friendly command line shell.
xvm - Ecstasy and XVM
elvish - Powerful scripting language & Versatile interactive shell
Yoakke - A collection of libraries for implementing compilers in .NET.
xonsh - :shell: Python-powered, cross-platform, Unix-gazing shell.
konna - A fast functional language based on two level type theory
PowerShell - PowerShell for every system!
aulang - simple and fast scripting language
ShellCheck - ShellCheck, a static analysis tool for shell scripts