zulip-mobile VS Mattermost

And a basic feature for the iOS client hasn’t been implemented in 6 years https://github.com/zulip/zulip-mobile/issues/438

But they haven’t managed to fix a rather basic feature in their iOS client in nearly 6 years now: https://github.com/zulip/zulip-mobile/issues/438

Zulip (version 27.191): The Zulip mobile app, chat for distributed teams

Federation would make me almost instantly recommend it for a handful of cases, but in the meantime they have a lot of catching up to do in the privacy department.

Behold, the two five year old tickets requesting that they stop passing notification text to Apple/Google cloud messaging:

https://github.com/zulip/zulip/issues/6954

https://github.com/zulip/zulip-mobile/issues/1190

For those who don't know: if you have an app and want to send a notification to a user, you use Apple or Google push notification services. In both cases, the notification is plaintext but transmitted via encrypted channel to Apple or Google, then transmitted via encrypted channel to the user's phone. But in each case, the push messaging provider gets to see the messaging text.

So companies that give a shit about your privacy send a token instead, that says "hey, wake up, something happened, fetch a notification." Apple likely doesn't do anything with the notification text, but it's a given Google datamines the hell out of it.

They also still don't have any form of e2ee. Here's another five year old ticket requesting end to end encrypted chat, where a bunch of people say "here's a long list of apps that support e2ee" and Zulip devs go "gosh golly how do they handle keys? Math is hard."

https://github.com/zulip/zulip/issues/6096

Indeed. It's been mentioned in the relevant issue: https://github.com/zulip/zulip-mobile/issues/3838

Zulip (version 169): The world’s most productive group chat

We've had similar problems with keeping Zulip in the Apple app store. It's incredibly unpleasant to deal with this aspect of publishing an open source application.

For context, Zulip is a 100% open-source team chat project (in the same space as Slack/IRC/etc.). You can self-host Zulip, which we've put a lot of effort into making easy, or host it on Zulip Cloud (with both free and paid plans). There's no individual subscription option for the product at all -- just like with Slack -- so the app store policies to enforce their monopoly by requiring all individual purchases be taxed by Google/Apple shouldn't even apply to us.

But we've still had multiple rounds of rejections caused by aggressive enforcement of these policies:

* A couple years ago, Apple reviewers repeatedly rejected updates to the app because the privacy policy / terms of service pages linked from the app contained the zulip.com website footer, which in turn link to the pricing page for Zulip's paid offerings. This means our Privacy Policy could be a way to get people to buy something without paying the Apple tax! We "resolved" this, on the advice of their appeals expert, by passing a special parameter when loading these pages from the ToS/Privacy links in the mobile apps that hides the header/footer sections of the page :(.

* In May, Apple reviewers repeatedly rejected the Zulip mobile app for linking to its own source on GitHub. At first we thought the problem was that we had recently set up GitHub Sponsors [1]. Further correspondence determined that the problem was even more ridiculous: Any GitHub page has a tiny link in the https://github.com/zulip/zulip-mobile footer for GitHub's own pricing! We were able to convince them to approve it in the end, but we were close to giving up and removing the GitHub links. I'm still upset about the whole experience because it was a huge waste of energy.

It's not clear to me whether these rejections are what Apple's policies intended or just the policies being incorrectly applied. But it doesn't really matter: these appeal processes are opaque and scary and mostly consist of them repeating what you need to change with minimal explanation. If not for the entrenched monopoly, we'd be looking to switch to another vendor that wasn't so sloppy about something that's very important to us. I think the harm caused by sloppiness on the part of monopolies doesn't get enough attention.

[1] This would have been wrong too, though I do know some companies use a Patreon as the way to sell their product, and I can imagine that being a workaround that Apple would be on the lookout for. But it's easy to check that we're definitely not playing that game.

> Tell me another platform that is free, has realtime chat, voice and video, has stable service, allows sharing images and other media, with good ownership management... and is open source.

Mattermost: https://mattermost.com/

Rocket.Chat: https://www.rocket.chat/

Nextcloud Talk: https://nextcloud.com/talk/

Self hosting and some assembly required. I've run all of them on cheap VPSes to explore a Slack/Discord replacement, neither was mindblowing but all of them seemed okay (Nextcloud's offering was rather barebones, though).

Audio and video support varies because getting those right is challenging, at best you'd just integrate with something like Jitsi, that one's actually pretty good for meetings and such: https://jitsi.org/ and has a cloud version too: https://meet.jit.si/ (yet people still go for Zoom and it's odd UI/UX choices)

I actually rather liked forums back in the day, but I guess nobody will be setting up that many phpBB instances in the current year, though projects like Discourse also seem promising: https://www.discourse.org/

I don't think many people at all will be leaving Discord, due to how entrenched the platform is (network effect): if you want people to help you with what you're working on, you go where they are, not vice versa.

Mattermost, Inc. | Senior React Native Engineer | REMOTE (US Only) | Full-Time

At Mattermost we build an open core, chat and collaboration platform focused on making users with mission critical work more productive while also allowing our customers to self-deploy and have full control over their own data.

We’re looking for a Senior React Native Engineer who has the depth to significantly move the performance needle of our app while also having the breadth to contribute across our stack.

Check out our open source mobile codebase: https://github.com/mattermost/mattermost-mobile. Meta uses the Mattermost RN app as the benchmark for performance testing of their Hermes JS engine: https://mattermost.com/blog/hermes-mattermost/. Want to set the bar for what a complex, high performing React Native app can do? Want to do it open source? Join our team!

Apply here: https://jobs.lever.co/mattermost/a38ea8f0-6c27-4178-a988-801...

Mattermost for Chat, and also for Notifications sent by Uptime-Kuma

Mattermost offers a secure, open-source solution for seamless collaboration throughout the software development lifecycle. Tailored to cater to technical and operational needs, it easily integrates with a wide range of third-party developer tools—to streamline development and engineering workflows. With self-hosted and private cloud deployment options, coupled with access to the source code, you have complete control over the data via a shared, adaptable, and extensible platform designed specifically for your team. Kindly suggested by Molasses_Major.

FWIW, most of the TypeScript lines of code are in the E2E tests[0] and the webapp dir [1], which, as the name suggests, contains "the client code for the Mattermost web app". So we should really only be counting lines of Go code.

[0] https://github.com/mattermost/mattermost/tree/master/e2e-tes...

[1] https://github.com/mattermost/mattermost/tree/master/webapp

Mattermost is an good alternative to companies, workers and teams.

oder auch Mattermost

Revolt, Guilded, Element (Matrix Client), Matrix, Cinny (Matrix Client), Spacebar, Rocket Chat, Mikoto, Mattermost, Teamspeak and Nertivia

might be overkill but https://mattermost.com/

But it seems that you're right for Mattermost.