timbre VS fulcro

There are logging libraries that include syntactically scoped timers, such as mulog (https://github.com/BrunoBonacci/mulog). While a great library, we preferred timbre (https://github.com/taoensso/timbre) and rolled our own logging timer macro that interoperates with it. More convenient to have such niceties in a Lisp of course.

Mentioning μ/log and no mention of timbre (https://github.com/taoensso/timbre), that is an odd omission. Malli is a great mention, but there ought to be a mention of clojure.spec (https://github.com/clojure/spec.alpha) which has much more mindshare.

If you're not familiar with lisps in general, it might be hard to grok the differences between lisp-macros (as used in Clojure) and "normal" macros you see in other languages.

But, if you are familiar already, and just wanna see examples of neat macros that makes the API nicer than what a function could provide, here are a few:

- https://github.com/clojure/core.async/blob/master/examples/w...

- https://github.com/weavejester/compojure

- https://github.com/ptaoussanis/timbre

- https://github.com/krisajenkins/yesql

When clj is invoked, two libraries will be available in our code: timbre logging library which artifacts taken from Maven, and test-runner, taken from GitHub.

No, I don't think they were hyped at any point.

They are used in certain libraries like https://github.com/ptaoussanis/timbre but for things that are simply not possible without macros, for example (timbre/spy (+ 1 1)) will actually print both the expression and the result:

DEBUG [ss.experimental.scratch:1] - (+ 1 1) => 2

Perhaps if the macros are "simple" they can be unpacked relatively easily. I do understand how mentally challenging that can be for somebody who's just starting with Clojure. I've been using Clojure for ~8 years and only just recently became more comfortable with macros after I made a conscious effort in that direction. I'm still far from an "expert" in them.

I definitely believe Clojure needs a rails. Not only will it help beginners get started, if it can help people get started faster and build fast like Django and rails do, I think it'll help more with adoption.

Biff and fulcro seems like they have a shot at this

Biff- https://github.com/jacobobryant/biff

Fulcro - https://github.com/fulcrologic/fulcro

A library that is a bit leaning towards a framework is Fulcro, a fullstack library to build SPAs http://fulcro.fulcrologic.com/

Fulcro (https://github.com/fulcrologic/fulcro) is my web framework of choice whenever I need to create any non-trivial web application thanks to its productivity. Its overarching design goal is sustainable development speed as time goes and code grows and it really shows up. It is developer friendly, with minimal boilerplate, and features you need for any serious application. And it is surprisingly flexible. Fulcro is based on a few simple ideas that combine powerfully to produce a multitude of capabilities, including its Rapid Application Development "add-on". Some people find Fulcro complicated and scary - but it doesn't need to be. Stop choosing "simpler" web frameworks - and ending up implementing half of Fulcro with much more effort and verbosity and much less value. I will present the minimalist way of learning Fulcro with its three corner stones and explain Fulcro's building blocks. After this talk, you will understand the design and value of Fulcro, be motivated to learn it, and equipped to do so quickly.

I am curious how this compares to Fulcro both from a conceptual and a usage perspective. Which advantages does this offer over Fulcro?

Fulcro has a complete "story" for data-driven UIs and backends. https://github.com/fulcrologic/fulcro

We do that via Fulcro: render the first frame in CLJ on JVM, then continue with CLJS in browser. The code is a bit dirty and probably won’t tell you much (because I can’t share the whole app), but you can definitely do that.