teliva VS awayto

Thanks for reply and for have shared your project first!

> I think we can refresh some the things that make it powerful with a fresh coat of paint, to make it more accessible to a “younger generation.”

That's what scare me, again in general: I see regular small complaint of modern absurdity, posts like:

- https://tiramisu.bearblog.dev/your-desktop-is-not-a-destinat... | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33838697

- https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/61535.html

- https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2022/02/07/epitaph-to-laptops...

- https://rsapkf.org/weblog/q2z/

- https://tomcritchlow.com/2022/04/21/new-rss/

- https://jfm.carcosa.net/blog/computing/usenet/ | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33510169

- https://dianne.skoll.ca/projects/remind/ | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28363453

- https://github.com/akkartik/teliva

- https://akiflow.com/

- https://onezero.medium.com/the-document-metaphor-desktop-gui...

- https://den.dev/blog/user-hostile-software/

- https://www.charlieharrington.com/smart-phone-dumb-terminal/

- https://mattmower.com/2021/08/02/what-we-lost/

and COUNTLESS others, similarly many "new stuff"/innovations appear and are actually partial, limited and limiting solutions to problems already solved decades ago in a more broad and superior way.

Emacs itself is a bit horrific in the sense that it's codebase is hard to be kept up by modern developers who have troubles knowing it, but at least represent the classic model. If we lost the memory of the past it will takes decades to reach the level of evolution we have already achieved witch is really a shame.

Anytime I see new software, yours, LogSeq, some "new shiny file manager", Tiidly Wiki and so on, witch actually are a BIG effort to achieve something already existing with far less efforts thanks to an already made ecosystems who makes their development easier I have a sore smile: end users suffer from limits of modern software, DEVELOPERS suffer equally because craft something on top of modern systems it's equally terrible but we seems to be unable on one side to reach again a critical mass of users to being able to innovate again, on the other sides most people simply ignore the past so ignore what's lost.

A stupid example: link an email in SB means essentially or support a specific MUA, tracking it's evolution since breaking changes might happen all the time or add an MUE inside SB. In Emacs it's just a simple function since anything is already there. In Plan 9 to cite a project often considered hostile from and to Emacs write an MUA is damn simple limiting mails to Plan 9 itself, an MUA it's just a specific viewer of some text stream read form some user-configured filesystems mounts and so on.

The sore part is that's I can easy state the above, even in my poor English, but I have no practical solution because resurrecting the classic model for present times demand an effort ONLY a public funded body or a large community can made. We have dismissed "for business reasons" essentially all public research and we have essentially pushed to irrelevance all communities...

I question the need for scale in 90% of the places where the tech industry has cargo-culted it. Clearly I'm still failing to articulate this. Perhaps https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30019146#30040616 will help triangulate on what I mean.

> Can you clarify what you see as the alternative? Implementing everything from scratch seems absurd and so costly that there’s no point in considering this an actual option.

Not using, reimplementing and copying are the closest thing to solutions I have right now. You're right that they're not applicable to most people in their current context. I have a day job in tech and have to deal with some cognitive dissonance every day between my day job and my open source research. The one thing I have found valuable to take to my scale-obsessed tech job is to constantly be suspicious of dependencies and constantly ask if the operational burdens justify some new feature. Just switching mindset that way from software as asset to software as liability has, I'd like to believe, helped my org's decision-making.

> We have probably invested dev-millennia into managing copies. This is exactly what source control does. This is not a new area of investment. Merging is a giant pain in the ass and very possibly always will be. Accepting merge pain better come with some huge benefits.

Not all copying is the same. We've learned to copy the letter 'e' so well in our writings that we don't even think about it. In this context, even if I made a tool to make copying easier and merges more reliable, that would just cause people to take on more dependencies which defeats the whole point of understanding dependencies. So tooling would be counter-productive in that direction. The direction I want to focus on is: how can we help people understand the software they've copied into their applications? _That_ is the place where I want tooling to focus. Copying is just an implementation detail, a first, imperfect, heuristic coping mechanism for going from the world we have today to the world I want to move to that has 1000x more forks and 1000x more eyeballs looking at source code. You can see some (very toy) efforts in this direction at https://github.com/akkartik/teliva

> It’s untenable to have, e.g., everyone who works on Windows be an expert in every part of the code.

It's frustrating to say one thing in response to counter-argument A and have someone then bring up counter-argument B because I didn't talk about it right there in the response to counter-argument A. I think this is what Plato was talking about when he ranted about the problems with the newfangled technology of writing: https://newlearningonline.com/literacies/chapter-1/socrates-.... I'm not saying everyone needs to be an expert in everything. I'm saying software should reduce the pressure on people to be experts so that we can late-bind experts to domains. Not every software sub-system should need expertise at the scale at which it is used in every possible context. My Linux laptop doesn't need to be optimized to the hilt the way Google's server farms do. Using the same scheduling algo or whatever in my laptop imposes real costs on my ability to understand my computer, without giving me the benefits Google gets from the algo.

There are options between those possibilities, though. Here's my preferred point[1] in the state space:

It's impossible for people to effectively use software over the long term without learning about its internals. Software can help people learn about its internals.

https://github.com/akkartik/teliva#readme

I work on ways to write programs that help outsiders understand their big picture (rather than insiders understand incoming contributions).

The goal: you (any programmer) should be able to use an open-source program, get an idea for a simple tweak, open it up, orient yourself, and make the change you visualized -- all in a single afternoon.

More details: http://akkartik.name/about

What I have so far: https://github.com/akkartik/teliva

Lately I'm spending a lot of time on the sandboxing model. It's nice to be able to download and run untrusted programs. How to permit this without letting them cause too much damage, by explicitly giving them arbitrarily fine-grained permissions that are still easy to take in at a glance.

Main project page: https://github.com/akkartik/teliva

It's hard. Building Mu has given me more of a flavor for just how hard it is. Some limitations of Mu:

* It still requires firmware. There's a whole lot of C down there. How deep do you want to go?

* No mouse. This is just my own ignorance. I can't get the damn IRQs and interrupts figured out.

* Doesn't work yet on real hardware. I live in Qemu. Debugging that is a whole new set of skills I need to learn.

* No networking, almost no persistent storage. Mu has a very simple and slow driver for ATA disks, but that probably won't suffice on most real-world machine configurations. There's 0 network drivers right now. I probably need a dozen to get any sort of coverage.

The stuff you mentioned around graphics and OS file dialogs, that feels easier once you're willing to put up with constraints like Mu's 1024x768 and so on. But yeah, there's major challenges on this road.

Partly due to these challenges, I've actually started to hedge my bets and make some compromises. My new project is https://github.com/akkartik/teliva which doesn't try to eliminate C, just minimize it. Linux kernel, libc, Lua (12k lines of C), some libraries for https. A gemini client is actually on my todo list there. I think I have everything I need to build it.

with chromatic backgrounds deserve whatever happens to them."

That's a lot of cognitive dissonance in a work about UI design. Let's try to do better in making TUIs mainstream. That requires encouraging people to use the few features terminals _do_ provide.

I've been doing a fair amount of ncurses hacking recently[1], and I prefer to always explicitly specify colors. People won't get their preferred colors by default, but they'll always get a legible configuration by default.

[1] https://github.com/akkartik/teliva

Repo

Hey folks, just putting this up as a demo link for people to try out. It's a project I've been working on since January and in light of recent framework posts lately I figured I'd start talking about my own.

The link is a demo site of Awayto v2 [1] (ignore the front page info that's all from version 1). Awayto [0] started out as a quick deploy app which grew to exist via AWS. I felt the need to make something that wasn't so closely tied to cloud infra, and Awayto v2 is that. Currently deployed on hetzner vms, using Tailscale for networking, there is a great deal of things going on. There is a local installation path planned, as long as you provide your own servers, etc, as it all just works on Tailscale anyway. I'm still working on docs, but the goal is to spit out _everything_ a dev might want to control in their stack. My current version of deploying to hetzner sets up 7 servers (2 ns, exit, build, app, db, svc). Git profile [2] for more info, tech stack info.

This is just a short demo and will only be up a limited time. There's no email validation or anything, gibberish is welcome. You are not being tracked. I know I need how-to docs, video assists, and all that. Slow and steady. It's being hosted from a single warehouse in the Pacific Northwest, be kind. Caching is in play and not perfectly tuned so maybe wait a few minutes if something doesn't automatically show up. Any feedback is awesome. Cheers!

[0] https://github.com/keybittech/awayto

This is really cool to see in this format. Over the last few years I have spent my free time crafting a framework under similar ideologies. I think a lot of web devs end up making similar tools throughout their career, but perhaps never get to the point of sharing what they make. I finally formalized my framework last year and am well into battle testing it with clients and different projects. https://awayto.dev

In a similar light to what this FWA group is presenting, I also have put forth some points about why this style of web dev architecture is important and effective. https://awayto.blog/posts/webapps/

Actually, I started out reading Million Dollar Consulting last year and one of the first chapters essentially talks about the importance of having a portfolio of work, and being able to capitalize off that body of knowledge within to grow more as a consultant. Well, I took that as a sign to formalize a framework that would allow me to do my development work in a much more effective manner, as well as provide more out of the box functionality for my clients.

Overall, the experience has been really positive. Obviously I don't get to use my own framework with every client, and that's a good thing. But, when working with clients who need basic business problems solved, having an FWA style framework is going to allow you to iterate so much faster than traditional MVC platforms. At least this has been my experience. Specifically to that point, with templated and loosely coupled parts, you don't have to spend too long building your web app to get it to do something exceptional.

Location: Pacific Northwest

Remote: Yes

Willing to relocate: For Contract or Consulting Only

Technologies: Java, C#, Javascript, Typescript, HTML, CSS, React, Redux, Material UI, NodeJS, Webpack, Postgres, Cognito, Lambda, CloudFormation, CloudFront, S3, API Gateway, HITRUST, FERPA

Résumé/CV: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joe-mccormick-76224429/

Email: [email protected]

My name is Joe. If you are looking for a consulting- or contract-based resource, I am interested and open to take on projects of many varieties. Over the last 10 years, my professional experience has touched on Education, Professional Consulting, IT Management, E-Commerce, and I hold my MA in English teaching. I have helmed numerous, extremely successful software development teams within the companies I have worked at, on projects of large complexity, some with millions of users and in revenue.

Check out https://awayto.dev which is a free open source web application platform. It uses React, Redux, Material UI, NodeJS, Typescript, Webpack, Postgres, Cognito, Lambda, CloudFormation, CloudFront, S3, API Gateway, as well as my own custom scripts. Awayto makes it fast to deploy low-cost web applications and then have a skilled developer come in and build up your application.

Thank you for your time.

SEEKING WORK - Pacific Northwest - Contract/Consulting Remote/Onsite

If you are looking for a consulting- or contract-based resource, I am interested and open to take on projects of many varieties. Over the last 10 years, my professional experience has touched on Education, Professional Consulting, IT Management, E-Commerce, and I hold my MA in English teaching. I have led multiple successful development teams within the companies I have worked at, on projects of large complexity, some with millions of users and in revenue.

For my most recent completed work, I created https://awayto.dev, a free open source web application generation platform. It uses React, Redux, Material UI, NodeJS, Typescript, Webpack, Postgres, AWS Cognito, Lambda, CloudFormation, CloudFront, S3, API Gateway, as well as my own custom scripts. Awayto makes it fast to deploy low-cost web applications and then have a skilled developer come in and build up your application. https://github.com/keybittech/awayto

Thank you for your time.

Javascript, Typescript, Java, C#, HTML, CSS, HITRUST, FERPA

Inquiries: [email protected] Website: https://awayto.dev LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joe-mccormick-76224429/

Willing to relocate: For Contract or Consulting Only

Technologies: Java, C#, Javascript, Typescript, HTML, CSS, React, Redux, Material UI, NodeJS, Webpack, Postgres, Cognito, Lambda, CloudFormation, CloudFront, S3, API Gateway, HITRUST, FERPA

Résumé/CV: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joe-mccormick-76224429/

Email: [email protected]

If you are looking for a consulting- or contract-based resource, I am interested and open to take on projects of many varieties. Over the last 10 years, my professional experience has touched on Education, Professional Consulting, IT Management, E-Commerce, and I hold my MA in English teaching. I have led multiple successful development teams within the companies I have worked at, on projects of large complexity, some with millions of users and in revenue.

For my most recent completed work, I created https://awayto.dev, a free open source web application generation platform. It uses React, Redux, Material UI, NodeJS, Typescript, Webpack, Postgres, AWS Cognito, Lambda, CloudFormation, CloudFront, S3, API Gateway, as well as my own custom scripts. Awayto makes it fast to deploy low-cost web applications and then have a skilled developer come in and build up your application. https://github.com/keybittech/awayto

Thank you for your time.

I made a web application generation tool built on top of AWS. It deploys all the basics you need for a web application in the modern era (db, ui, api, users, groups, roles).

https://awayto.dev -- Check out the video

https://github.com/keybittech/awayto

If you like making tools for developers, contractors, and the business world. Come check us out and join the discord!

Hey there, I work on a project called Awayto. It generates and deploys web applications to AWS with all the base line bells and whistles (db, api, ui, user mgmt, react, typescript). I enjoy working on tools for developers and this is a project that's supposed to help developer consultants. It's a full stack framework, and there are of course many ways you could help or be involved, so if it sounds interesting please check it out!

https://github.com/keybittech/awayto

https://awayto.dev

A lot of the comments here are about difficulty cloud tech navigation/adoption. I create a framework built on top of AWS to try to alleviate a great deal of the infra management aspects of running web applications. It sets you up with all the basics out of the box in about 10 minutes (db, api, ui, users, groups, roles).

https://awayto.dev

https://github.com/keybittech/awayto

Along the same vein as other posts in this thread, startups and contractors need instantaneous test bed environments that support a lot out of the gate, and which can be the basis to scale from. I've been a contractor off and on for a few years and have seen this need first hand. So my tool is meant to fill in the foundations of great ideas, so those ideas can grow faster. I think that's an essential trait of cloud services that you will be hard-pressed to find elsewhere.

SEEKING WORK - Pacific Northwest - Contract/Consulting Remote/Onsite

If you are looking for a consulting- or contract-based resource, I am interested and open to take on projects of many varieties. Over the last 10 years, my professional experience has touched on Education, Professional Consulting, IT Management, E-Commerce, and I hold my MA in English teaching. I have led multiple successful development teams within the companies I have worked at, on projects of large complexity, some with millions of users and in revenue.

As a side project, I created https://awayto.dev, a free open source web application generation platform. It uses React, Redux, Material UI, NodeJS, Typescript, Webpack, Postgres, AWS Cognito, Lambda, CloudFormation, CloudFront, S3, API Gateway, as well as my own custom scripts. Awayto makes it fast to deploy low-cost web applications and then have a skilled developer come in and build up your application.

Thank you for your time.

Java, C#, Javascript, Typescript, HTML, CSS, PHP, Ruby, Python, HITRUST, FERPA

Inquiries: [email protected]

Remote: Yes

Willing to relocate: For Contract or Consulting Only

Technologies: Java, C#, Javascript, Typescript, HTML, CSS, React, Redux, Material UI, NodeJS, Webpack, Postgres, Cognito, Lambda, CloudFormation, CloudFront, S3, API Gateway, HITRUST, FERPA

Résumé/CV: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joe-mccormick-76224429/

Email: [email protected]

If you are looking for a consulting- or contract-based resource, I am interested and open to take on projects of many varieties. Over the last 10 years, my professional experience has touched on Education, Professional Consulting, IT Management, E-Commerce, and I hold my MA in English teaching. I have led multiple successful development teams within the companies I have worked at, on projects of large complexity, some with millions of users and in revenue.

As a side project, I created https://awayto.dev, a free open source web application generation platform. It uses React, Redux, Material UI, NodeJS, Typescript, Webpack, Postgres, AWS Cognito, Lambda, CloudFormation, CloudFront, S3, API Gateway, as well as my own custom scripts. Awayto makes it fast to deploy low-cost web applications and then have a skilled developer come in and build up your application.

Thank you for your time.