rua VS toolbox

> While I find projects in those other languages to also have too many dependencies, it's no where near what happens in JS apps. I'm thinking of projects I've recently worked on in Rust, PHP, and Java.

My experience with these new languages is such that this feels a bit unfair. It's like insisting that a disaster with 1000 fatalities is "much worse" than one with "only". It's ... true ... I guess, but there's something uncomfortable about making the comparison. Something has gone badly wrong if the comparison even needs to happen in the first place.

What I'm getting at is that e.g. Rust has an enormous problem in this area. It's not uncommon for me to see Node projects with over a thousand transitive dependencies, but on the other hand, I very frequently see Rust projects with over a hundred. And the Node projects tend to be more complicated than the Rust ones; they do more.

Take the last Rust program I tried to use, tealdeer. [1] If you don't know, tldr is a project that provides alternative simplified man pages for commonly used programs that consist entirely of easy to understand examples for the program. [2] What a tldr client needs to do is simply to check a local cache for each lookup, and if necessary update the cache online. It's a trivial problem that can be, and has been! [3], solved in a few hundred lines of shell (if you're being extremely verbose). How many recursive dependencies would you guess tealdeer uses? Depends on how you count, of course, but as of today the answer is ~133 deduplicated dependencies! For a program that's a glorified wrapper around curl!

Or another Rust program I looked at recently, rua [4]. In Arch Linux, the AUR is a repository of user maintained scripts for building and installing software as native Arch packages. Official tools for the building and installing software already exist for Arch, but it is common for users to use a wrapper around these tools that makes fetching and updating the software from the AUR easier. It's a relatively simple task that (once again) can be done with shell scripts. rua is such a wrapper. As of today it uses 137 deduplicated dependencies!

These Rust programs are simple terminal tools to do tasks that are almost trivial in nature. And yet they require hundreds of constantly updating dependencies! The situation may well be better than what you'll find for Node, but it's undeniably disastrous compared to either simpler languages without a built in package manager (like C) or more complicated batteries-included languages where best practices continue to prevail (like Python).

[1] https://github.com/dbrgn/tealdeer

[2] https://tldr.sh/

[3] https://github.com/raylee/tldr-sh-client/blob/main/tldr

[4] https://github.com/vn971/rua

I gotta dig into rua too, seems cool!

Rua can do local patches (https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/AUR_helper#Comparison_tables)

https://github.com/vn971/rua#install-the-aur-way

The team has both made a ton of effort switching off their proprietary Skia based rendering tech and adopting standard Wayland, and has put forward huge effort to making running incredibly well integrated real Linux containers just work.

The headline is true. ChromeOS is Linux with Google’s desktop environment. But it obfuscates the details. It's a damned by omission statement. It has some really good sauce to help you not notice often, but it's not at all a Linux desktop environment one can regularly use. You can do a lot of Linux desktop-y things but only through well crafted special unique wrapped processes that mostly but not fully help mock & emulate a regular Linux desktop. Even though it now runs Wayland, the apps you want to run will have atypical intermediates up the wazoo.

And no one else uses any of this tech. ChromiumOs has so much interesting container tech, does such an interesting job making containers think they have a regular Linux / FreeDesktop environment. It's far far far far deeper virtualization than for example https://github.com/containers/toolbox . But you know what? Google has made zero effort to get these pieces adopted elsewhere. It's open source but not intended for use outside Chromium/ChromeOS. I respect & think ChromeOS is a quite viable Linux, and it's so much closer to the metal & more interesting, amazing tech, but my gods Microsoft has gone 300x further to establish wsl2 as a sustainable community effort folks could use & target, in a way that ChromiumOS has done nothing about.

It's sad how Google has transformed from a company that appreciated & worked with ecosystems, that drove things collectively forward, into an individual player that does their own things & delivers from on high. ChromiumOS is such an incredible effort, but it's so internernally drive & focused, and it's hard to believe in such a wildcat effort, even though it's so so good. It keeps coming into better alignment with Linux Desktop actual, but via shims and emulations that no one else cares about or which seems marketed elsewhere. And that inward focus makes the whole effort both so exceptional & promising, but suspect. Such a different nearby but alternative & separately governed universe. ChromiumOS/ChromeOS do excellent at faking being a Linux desktop, and wonderfully have increasingly drawn more strength from that universe, but are still wholly their own very distinct very separate very controller other space. In many ways that's great, secure, good, and miraculously transparently done. But it's still hard to really trust, being such a weird alien impostor, faking so much for end user apps, and there's tension in believing ChromeOS will keep straddling the rift in pro-user manifestations forever.

I'm really, really happy with my current setup of Fedora immutable + toolbox [0]. This tool lets you create containers that are fully integrated with the system, so you have acces to the entire Fedora repos, can run graphical apps, etc. while still having everything inside a container in your home directory. That means no Flatpak required. Highly recommended.

[0] https://containertoolbx.org

Seems like toolbox is also in this space; https://github.com/containers/toolbox

With Silverblue the core repos are very similar to what you'd have on regular Fedora. With more of a philosophical shift about where you're supposed to install things from. The idea being that the base OS is immutable and you keep it fairly minimal - even though you are technically free to install any of Fedora packages to it. And then you install user applications through Flatpak and toolbx. Where these more user space focussed applications are installed to your home directory and are sandboxed away from actual access to your OS. With iOS/Android style application permissions like "Give app permission to access camera" and "Give app permission to modify files in home directory". Allowing you even further customise the sandboxing of applications. Do you really want that app to have access to your microphone?

I'd probably try running it on the host system first. If you want to use your nvidia gpu inside toolbox, you would indeed need to install the drivers in the container: https://github.com/containers/toolbox/issues/116

Use toolbox on CentOS or Ubuntu if you want a Fedora environment with more up to date tools: https://containertoolbx.org/