re-frame VS clojure

This article always reminds me of this excerpt from re-frame’s docs [0]:

> Now, you think and design abstractly for a living, and that repetition will feel uncomfortable. It will call to you like a Siren: "refaaaaactoooor meeeee". "Maaaake it DRYYYY". So here's my tip: tie yourself to the mast and sail on. That repetition is good. It is serving a purpose. Just sail on.

[0]: https://github.com/day8/re-frame/blob/master/docs/correcting...

* Single-Page App: shadow-cljs for the build concerns (https://github.com/thheller/shadow-cljs), Reagent with Re-frame for complex/large app (https://reagent-project.github.io and https://github.com/day8/re-frame). Even if we now prefer using HTMX (https://htmx.org) and server-side rendering (Hiccup way of manipulating HTML is just amazing, https://github.com/weavejester/hiccup).

Big and/or complete projects that use re-frame The main list: https://github.com/day8/re-frame/blob/master/docs/External-Resources.md

Reflet is a set of tools for building Re-frame + React based web apps with graph and non-graph data models. This includes:

https://github.com/day8/re-frame

Notably the author of re-frame has been weary of hooks.

I think that’s for a good reason. The approach in re frame feels like the best way to manage state so far for a react based app. Everything that changes state flows through an event. State can only be observed through subscriptions. Side effects are isolated to their own type of event. Debugging and testing are so straight forward with these concepts.

Redux got close but it has two problems in my mind. Like hooks, it encapsulates for no good reason. Put the state in one thing that you can observe holistically before and after pure events. It also has too much boiler plate.

The cljs stack I hear about a lot (and use) is ShadowCLJS with reagent (https://reagent-project.github.io/) and re-frame (https://day8.github.io/re-frame/). ShadowCLJS is more of a build tool, but is really well documented and easy to use. Reagent is basically react but a simpler API, and re-frame is a layer on top of that provides data subscriptions and event-handlers to manage app state. It's overkill for some apps but I find it's actually super easy to work with and not as much complexity as I thought.

For backend there is luminus (https://luminusweb.com/) or Kit (https://kit-clj.github.io/). They are basically project templates that wire together a ton of popular solutions for various things - database access, migrations, security, html templating, etc. Also includes frontend frameworks like re-frame if you want.

Reflet aims to be a natural progression on top of Re-frame to support complex, data driven requirements. In that sense, it is both easy to learn, but powerful. You could say it's sort of like Re-frame++ (or Fulcro for Re-frame). Its main design goals are:

At my current client we're working on having a frontend architecture for writing SPAs in JavaScript similar to re-frame's one: an event-driven bus with effects and coeffects for state management[1] (commands) and subscriptions using reselect's selectors (queries).

Some of us had worked with effects and coeffects before while developing SPAs with re-frame and had experienced how good it is. After working with re-frame, when you come to horizon, you realize how a good architecture can make a dramatic difference in clarity, testability, understandability and easiness of change.

https://youtu.be/geeK1-jjlhY (talk about an initial prototype with re-frame and the decision to do a rewrite in Clojure)

This article will explain how to write a simple service in Clojure. The sweet spot of making applications in Clojure is that you can expressively use an entire rich Java ecosystem. Less code, less boilerplate: it is possible to achieve more with less. In this example, I use most of the libraries from the Java world; everything else is a thin Clojure wrapper around Java libraries.

5. Clojure - $96,381

I have a tangential question that is related to this cool new feature.

Warning: the question I ask comes from a part of my brain that is currently melted due to heavy thinking.

Context: I write a fair amount of Clojure, and in Lisps the code itself is a tree. Just like this F# parallel graph type-checker. In Lisps, one would use Macros to perform compile-time computation to accomplish something like this, I think.

More context: Idris2 allows for first class type-driven development, where the types are passed around and used to formally specify program behavior, even down to the value of a particular definition.

Given that this F# feature enables parallel analysis, wouldn't it make sense to do all of our development in a Lisp-like Trie structure where the types are simply part of the program itself, like in Idris2?

Also related, is this similar to how HVM works with their "Interaction nets"?

https://github.com/HigherOrderCO/HVM

https://www.idris-lang.org/

https://clojure.org/

I'm afraid I don't even understand what the difference between code, data, and types are anymore... it used to make sense, but these new languages have dissolved those boundaries in my mind, and I am not sure how to build it back up again.

As an analogy - my face hasn't changed all that much in a past few years, and I haven't changed my profile picture in those few years. Does it really mean that I'm unmaintained/dead?

> Where can I find latest documentation [...]?

The answer is still https://clojure.org/. And https://clojuredocs.org/ but it's community-maintained so might occasionally be missing some things right after they're released. E.g. as of this moment Clojure 1.11 is still not there since the maintainer of the website has some technical issues deploying the updated version of the website.

For me personally, the best API-level documentation is the source code.

> Where can I find [...] tools / libraries in a easy to use page or section?

There's no central repository of all the available things since they can be loaded from many places (Clojars, Maven Central, other Maven repositories, S3, Git, local files).

But there are community-maintained lists, like the one you've mentioned at https://www.clojure-toolbox.com (fully manual, AFAIK) or the one at https://phronmophobic.github.io/dewey/search.html (automated but only for GitHub). Perhaps there are others but I'm not familiar with them - most of the time, I myself don't find that much value in such services as I'm usually able to find things with a regular web search engine or ask the community when I need something in particular.

They are written in Java, and implement a bunch of interfaces, so the implementation looks complicated, but they are basically just classes with head and tail fields.

https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/jvm/cloju...

Like this.

As a Java/Scala user you should check out Clojure! It is highly recommended (https://clojure.org)

Lisp is not a programming language, but a family of languages ​​with many dialects. The most famous dialects include Common Lisp, Clojure, Scheme and Racket. So after deciding that I was going to learn Lisp, I had to choose one of its dialects.

I learned Clojure to implement a plugin for Metabase (the tool my former company used for creating business dashboards). I probably won’t ever use the language anymore in the future, but learning functional programming was fun and eye-opening.