ponyc
hylo
ponyc | hylo | |
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61 | 54 | |
5,602 | 1,106 | |
0.2% | 1.4% | |
9.2 | 9.9 | |
7 days ago | 7 days ago | |
C | Swift | |
BSD 2-clause "Simplified" License | Apache License 2.0 |
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ponyc
- Old Version
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The problem with general purpose programming languages
For example, the actor's model is not used by a lot of languages, Pony (https://www.ponylang.io/) and Elixir are the only ones that I know, but they address the concurrency problem quite well, while it's a pain to deal with in other languages at large scale.
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Found a language in development called Vale which claims to be the safest AOT compiled language in the World (Claims to beSafer than Rust)
And that last point is critical. If the language flatly can't represent some concepts it uses, they have to be implemented somewhere else. I had a similar discussion with a proponent for Pony once- the language itself is 100% safe, and fully dependent on C for its runtime and data structures. One of Rust's core strengths is being able to express unsafe concepts, meaning the unsafe code can expose a safe interface that accurately describes its requirements rather than an opaque C ABI. Vale doesn't seem to do that.
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The Rust I wanted had no future
"Exterior iteration. Iteration used to be by stack / non-escaping coroutines, which we also called "interior" iteration, as opposed to "exterior" iteration by pointer-like things that live in variables you advance. Such coroutines are now finally supported by LLVM (they weren't at the time) and are actually a fairly old and reliable mechanism for a linking-friendly, not-having-to-inline-tons-of-library-code abstraction for iteration. They're in, like, BLISS and Modula-2 and such. Really normal thing to have, early Rust had them, and they got ripped out for a bunch of reasons that, again, mostly just form "an argument I lost" rather than anything I disagree with today. I wish Rust still had them. Maybe someday it will!"
I remember that one. The change was shortly after I started fooling with Rust and was major. Major as in it broke all the code that I'd written to that point.
"Async/await. I wanted a standard green-thread runtime with growable stacks -- essentially just "coroutines that escape, when you need them too"."
I remember that one, too; it was one of the things that drew me to the language---I was imagining something more like Pony (https://www.ponylang.io/).
"The Rust I Wanted probably had no future, or at least not one anywhere near as good as The Rust We Got."
Almost certainly true. But The Rust We Got is A Better C++, which was never appealing to me because I never liked C++ anyway.
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How long until Rust becomes mandatory, and use of any other language opens the developer up to Reckless Endangerment charges
Pony or bust.
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Universal parameter passing semantics
If you have a value in mutable storage, and want to treat it as an immutable parameter without copying it first, you will need to provide some way to guarantee that it won't be mutated while being treated as immutable! There doesn't seem to be a definitive best way to do that (although the likes of Pony make a try at it).
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Virtual Threads Arrive in JDK 21, Ushering a New Era of Concurrency
The love child of Erlang and Rust exists already: Pony.
https://www.ponylang.io
It really is the best of both languages... unfortunately, the main supporter of Pony seems to have stopped using it in favour of Rust though :D.
But if that's really what you want, Pony is your language. It definitely deserves more love.
- Programming language rule
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Why Turborepo is migrating from Go to Rust – Vercel
You can actually try to have a magic language which "does not ignore decades of PL research" but you are likely to get either something broken or a project that is likely not going to release in our lifetime.
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Show HN: Ractor – a Rust-based actor framework with clusters and supervisors
Never a bad time to plug Pony lang[1] - a safety-oriented actor-model language. In addition to the numerous safety guarantees, you also get a beautiful syntax and automatic memory management. Really a great language that often gets overshadowed by Rust's hype-turfing.
[1]: https://www.ponylang.io/
hylo
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Vala Programming Language
Or Val[0], now called Hylo (for a good reason), or V[1].
[0] https://www.hylo-lang.org
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Cpp2 and cppfront – An experimental 'C++ syntax 2' and its first compiler
The evolution of C++ has been a multi-decade history of dealing with difficult reality.
I have great hope that Herb can create with his cppfront project “The Very Best of C++” to carry that tremendous legacy forward.
If I was to throw my hat into a “C++ successor”, it would be https://www.hylo-lang.org/ with its “all the safeties” and “tell you when you’re doing it sub-optimal” approach.
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Borrow Checking Hylo [video]
Paper: https://2023.splashcon.org/details/iwaco-2023-papers/5/Borro...
> Hylo is a language for high-level systems programming that promises safety without loss of efficiency. It is based on mutable value semantics, a discipline that emphasizes the independence of values to support local reasoning. The result—in contrast with approaches based on sophisticated aliasing restrictions—is an efficient, expressive language with a simple type system and no need for lifetime annotations.
> Safety guarantees in Hylo programs are verified by an abstract interpreter processing an intermediate representation, Hylo IR, that models lifetime properties with ghost instructions. Further, lifetime constraints are used to eliminate unnecessary memory allocations predictably.
https://www.hylo-lang.org/
https://github.com/Hylo-lang/Hylo
- Hylo a programming language that tries to be safe and fast
- Odin Programming Language
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Why do lifetimes need to be leaky?
A model without lifetimes is also being explored in other languages, e.g. in Hylo. It sacrifices expressiveness, but on the other hand you don't have to deal with explicit lifetimes!
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D Programming Language
Why go through all the trouble when you can do this: https://www.hylo-lang.org/ and not spend a second thinking of lifetimes? No, copies will not be issued unless necessary.
Or why not keep exploring this idea as well? More research-oriented than the first one right now, though, so take it with a grain of salt: https://vale.dev/
- Berry is a ultra-lightweight dynamically typed embedded scripting language
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I've heard that "Rust's borrow checker is necessary to ensure memory safety without a GC" usually also implying it's the only way, but I've done the same without the borrow checker. Am I just clueless/confused?
Get rid of references at the cost of some expressivity (see Hylo, formerly Val)
- Rename 'Val' to 'Hylo'
What are some alternatives?
gleam - ⭐️ A friendly language for building type-safe, scalable systems!
carbon-lang - Carbon Language's main repository: documents, design, implementation, and related tools. (NOTE: Carbon Language is experimental; see README)
Halide - a language for fast, portable data-parallel computation
jakt - The Jakt Programming Language
prolog-to-minizinc - A Prolog-to-MiniZinc translator
rust - Empowering everyone to build reliable and efficient software.
Phoenix - wxPython's Project Phoenix. A new implementation of wxPython, better, stronger, faster than he was before.
vale - Verified Assembly Language for Everest
tab-rs - The intuitive, config-driven terminal multiplexer designed for software & systems engineers
Vale - Compiler for the Vale programming language - http://vale.dev/
Nim - Nim is a statically typed compiled systems programming language. It combines successful concepts from mature languages like Python, Ada and Modula. Its design focuses on efficiency, expressiveness, and elegance (in that order of priority).
zig - General-purpose programming language and toolchain for maintaining robust, optimal, and reusable software.