noria VS mentat

> Automatically managed, application-transparent, physical denormalisation entirely managed by the database is something I am very, very interested in.

Sounds a bit like Noria: https://github.com/mit-pdos/noria

It feels more than a little bit coincidental to call it Noria when https://github.com/mit-pdos/noria exists (and has been posted about here on HN)... especially with the whole bit about incrementally computing changes.

Is this similar in spirit to Noria?

https://github.com/mit-pdos/noria

I assume you have studied Noria? https://github.com/mit-pdos/noria

If you want to look how databases are implemented in rust try https://github.com/mit-pdos/noria

Only tangentially related, but I wondered what were the difference between ReadySet and Noria, and they address this exact question in their repository I'm really glad to know that the ideas behind Noria didn't die when Noria was abandoned after /u/jonhoo graduated.

:wave: Author of the paper this work is based on here.

I'm so excited to see dynamic, partially-stateful data-flow for incremental materialized view maintenance becoming more wide-spread! I continue to think it's a _great_ idea, and the speed-ups (and complexity reduction) it can yield are pretty immense, so seeing more folks building on the idea makes me very happy.

The PlanetScale blog post references my original "Noria" OSDI paper (https://pdos.csail.mit.edu/papers/noria:osdi18.pdf), but I'd actually recommend my PhD thesis instead (https://jon.thesquareplanet.com/papers/phd-thesis.pdf), as it goes much deeper about some of the technical challenges and solutions involved. It also has a chapter (Appendix A) that covers how it all works by analogy, which the less-technical among the audience may appreciate :) A recording of my thesis defense on this, which may be more digestible than the thesis itself, is also online at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GctxvSPIfr8, as well as a shorter talk from a few years earlier at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s19G6n0UjsM. And the Noria research prototype (written in Rust) is on GitHub: https://github.com/mit-pdos/noria.

As others have already mentioned in the comments, I co-founded ReadySet (https://readyset.io/) shortly after graduating specifically to build off of Noria, and they're doing amazing work to provide these kinds of speed-ups for general-purpose relational databases. If you're using one of those, it's worth giving ReadySet a look to get these kinds of speedups there! It's also source-available @ https://github.com/readysettech/readyset if you're curious.

It seems similar to MIT's Noria [1]

> Noria is a new streaming data-flow system designed to act as a fast storage backend for read-heavy web applications based on Jon Gjengset's Phd Thesis, as well as this paper from OSDI'18. It acts like a database, but precomputes and caches relational query results so that reads are blazingly fast. Noria automatically keeps cached results up-to-date as the underlying data, stored in persistent base tables, change. Noria uses partially-stateful data-flow to reduce memory overhead, and supports dynamic, runtime data-flow and query change.

[1] https://github.com/mit-pdos/noria

Materialize is really neat, also checkout https://github.com/mit-pdos/noria. It inverts the query problem and processes the data on insert. Exactly like what most applications end up doing using a no-sql solution.

Why did Mozilla abandon the Mentat database?

There is (now unmaintained) project called Mentat [0] from Mozilla.

[0] https://github.com/mozilla/mentat

Mozilla was working on the opposite, a Datalog of SQLite, with Mentat, now abandoned: https://github.com/mozilla/mentat

Strikes me as a basically sound idea and it would be lovely if someone picked up the ball.

mentat was archived by mozilla back in 2017, but there are a bunch of forks. Because github is dumb and has a terrible interface for exploring forks [0], I used the Active GitHub Forks tool [1] that helped to find:

qpdb/mentat [2] seems to be the largest (+131 commits) and most recently modified (May this year) fork of mozilla/mentat.

[0]: https://github.com/mozilla/mentat/network/members - Seriously, how am I supposed to use this? Hundreds of entries, but no counts for stars, contributors, or commits, no details about recent commits. Just click every one?

[1]: https://techgaun.github.io/active-forks/index.html

[2]: https://github.com/qpdb/mentat

There are plenty of open source Datomic Inspired databases. Check out https://github.com/juji-io/datalevin and scroll down all the way down to “Alternatives”. There was even the beginning of a rust one by Mozilla: https://github.com/mozilla/mentat

I think you might be slightly misreading things, from what you quoted it’s about the query language (sql vs Datalog) not the database engine, that would likely be SQLite in any case. Now whether grafting a Datalog query engine onto SQLite is a good idea is a different question (though it’s been done, eg https://github.com/mozilla/mentat), but we should all at least talk about the same thing :)

You might be interested in the now defunct Mentat project from Mozilla. They made an EAV store with syncing on top of sqlite. It ran datalog queries by translating them into sql.

https://github.com/mozilla/mentat