meetings
riscv-v-spec
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meetings | riscv-v-spec | |
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9 | 43 | |
444 | 858 | |
2.3% | - | |
9.4 | 6.0 | |
7 days ago | about 1 month ago | |
HTML | Assembly | |
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Activity is a relative number indicating how actively a project is being developed. Recent commits have higher weight than older ones.
For example, an activity of 9.0 indicates that a project is amongst the top 10% of the most actively developed projects that we are tracking.
meetings
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WASI 0.2.0 and Why It Matters
WASI Co-chair here. Nothing in WASI is "somehow blocked by Google", or indeed blocked by anyone at all. Graphics support in WASI hasn't been developed simply because nobody has put energy into developing graphics support in WASI.
At the end of 2023 we counted around 40 contributors who have been working on WASI specifications and implementations: https://github.com/WebAssembly/meetings/blob/main/wasi/2023/... . That is a great growth for our project from a few years ago when that issue was filed, but as you can see from what people are working on, its all much more foundational pieces than a graphics interface. Also, if you look at who is employing those contributors, its largely vendors who are interested in WASI in the context of serverless. That doesn't mean WASI is limited to only serverless, but that has been the focus from contributors so far.
By rolling out WASI on top of the WASM Component Model we have built a sound foundation for creating WASI proposals that support more problem domains, such as embedded systems (@mc_woods and his colleagues are helping with this), or graphics if someone is interested in putting in the work. Our guide to how to create proposals is found here: https://github.com/WebAssembly/WASI/blob/main/Contributing.m... .
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WASM: Big Deal or Little Deal?
For me, the huge missing link (that is fortunately being worked on!) is being able to (in a performant way) have a good answer for "host code wants to do some blocking operation, WASM should suspend during the operation".
This _should_ be gotten thanks to work on stack switching in WASM. As of the most recent working group meeting on this [0], it seems like V8 has made a good amount of progress on this. They published a thing back in January[1] on this, and hopefully if things go well and this is available across WASM engines then there will be one less "JS-ism" (everything async) that causes issues for transpilation.
[0]: https://github.com/WebAssembly/meetings/blob/main/stack/2023...
[1]: https://v8.dev/blog/jspi
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Goodbye to the C++ Implementation of Zig
> Whereas the later has only been around since 2015 and was created by a company that subsists off an agreement with a deviant online advertising company.
Mozilla created a precursor technology, but I thought Wasm was developed via the W3C standards process from the start. From the notes of the first meeting, you can see attendees from Adobe, Apple, ARM, Autodesk, Google, Intel, Mozilla, Stanford, and more.
https://github.com/WebAssembly/meetings/blob/main/main/2017/...
Additionally, Wasm has been a W3C standard since 2019.
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Wasm difficulties in Rust, Haskell, and Go
A bunch of packages like tokio don't work because they transitively depend on net, and WASI doesn't have networking yet (networking is in phase 1 of 5), and it doesn't seem possible to turn off the net feature of transitive dependencies
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Take More Screenshots
I think SIMD was a distraction to our conversation, most code doesn't use it and in the future the length agnostic, flexible vectors; https://github.com/WebAssembly/flexible-vectors/blob/master/... are a better solution. They are a lot like RVV; https://github.com/riscv/riscv-v-spec, research around vector processing is why RISC-V exists in the first place!
I was trying to find the smallest Rust Wasm interpreters I could find, I should have read the source first, I only really use wasmtime, but this one looks very interesting, zero deps, zero unsafe.
16.5kloc of Rust https://github.com/rhysd/wain
The most complete wasm env for small devices is wasm3
20kloc of C https://github.com/wasm3/wasm3
I get what you are saying as to be so small that there isn't a place of bugs to hide.
> “There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult.” CAR Hoare
Even a 100 line program can't be guaranteed to be free of bugs. These programs need embedded tests to ensure that the layer below them is functioning as intended. They cannot and should not run open loop. Speaking of 300+ reimplementations, I am sure that RISC-V has already exceeded that. The smallest readable implementation is like 200 lines of code; https://github.com/BrunoLevy/learn-fpga/blob/master/FemtoRV/...
I don't think Wasm suffers from the base extension issue you bring up. It will get larger, but 1.0 has the right algebraic properties to be useful forever. Wasm does require an environment, for archival purposes that environment should be written in Wasm, with api for instantiating more envs passed into the first env. There are two solutions to the Wasm generating and calling Wasm problem. First would be a trampoline, where one returns Wasm from the first Wasm program which is then re-instantiated by the outer env. The other would be to pass in the api to create new Wasm envs over existing memory buffers.
See, https://copy.sh/v86/
MS-DOS, NES or C64 are useful for archival purposes because they are dead, frozen in time along with a large corpus of software. But there is a ton of complexity in implementing those systems with enough fidelity to run software.
Lua, Typed Assembly; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typed_assembly_language and Sector Lisp; https://github.com/jart/sectorlisp seem to have the right minimalism and compactness for archival purposes. Maybe it is sectorlisp+rv32+wasm.
If there are directions you would like Wasm to go, I really recommend attending the Wasm CG meetings.
https://github.com/WebAssembly/meetings
When it comes to an archival system, I'd like it to be able to run anything from an era, not just specially crafted binaries. I think Wasm meets that goal.
https://gist.github.com/dabeaz/7d8838b54dba5006c58a40fc28da9...
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Wazero: The zero dependency WebAssembly runtime for Go developers
[2]: https://github.com/WebAssembly/meetings/blob/main/process/ph...
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WebAssembly 2.0 Working Draft
The simplest way to get involved is to start attending the biweekly standardization meetings. The agendas are organized here: https://github.com/WebAssembly/meetings
To attend the meetings, first join the W3C WebAssembly Community Group here: https://www.w3.org/groups/cg/webassembly, then email the CG chairs at [email protected] to ask for an invite.
From there you'll get a sense of who folks are so you can pair names with faces when contributing to the various proposal discussions on the many proposal repos listed here: https://github.com/webassembly/proposals.
To get a sense of how things are run and decided, read the process documents here: https://github.com/WebAssembly/meetings/tree/main/process. The TL;DR is that the community group and its subgroups decide everything by consensus via votes during the meetings.
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Launch HN: Lunatic (YC W21) – An Erlang Inspired WebAssembly Platform
Meetings are scheduled here, along with their planned agendas: https://github.com/WebAssembly/meetings/tree/master/stack/20...
riscv-v-spec
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Scaleway launches RISC-V servers
Here are some resources I can recommend:
RVV spec (also look at the examples in the repo): https://github.com/riscv/riscv-v-spec/blob/master/v-spec.ado...
RVV intrinsics viewer: https://dzaima.github.io/intrinsics-viewer
Tutorial: RISC-V Vector Extension Demystified (3 hour video going over every instruction): https://youtu.be/oTaOd8qr53U
RISC-V Vector extension in a nutshell: https://fprox.substack.com/p/risc-v-vector-extension-in-a-nu...
If you want to see a more complex example/real world application, then you might also be ibterested ib my article about vectorizing unicode conversions: https://camel-cdr.github.io/rvv-bench-results/articles/vecto...
In terms of development I'd recommend using qemu and a cross compiler, or if you want hardware try to get the kendryte k230 (currently the only sbc with rvv 1.0 support) or wait a bit for better hardware (BPI-F3 and sg2380 should release this year).
- Cray-1 performance vs. modern CPUs
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x86 vs ARM; Vector and Matrix Extensions; How do they compare?
And this isn't just some theoretical or something unlikely to happen - the official spec already contains such a bug. If the writers of the spec can't get things right, even with the small amount of code in the spec, I don't have high hopes that less informed programmers will. RVV being absurdly complicated (IMO, compared to SVE2 and AVX10) doesn't help its cause here.
- riscv64 is now an official Debian architecture (rebootstrap in progress)
- Vector vs SIMD
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LLVM's libc Gets Much Faster memcpy For RISC-V
Will the reference one actually be the most optimal one on future hardware?
- Is there any good place to find a copy-paste-able quick reference on RISC-V extensions? Particularly for the vector extension
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Building a toolchain suitable for compiling V extension code
I'll do a deep dive into the https://gms.tf/riscv-vector.html#getting-started tutorial, and probably pop the proverbial stack and just study RVV 0.7.1 on its own (using https://github.com/riscv/riscv-v-spec/releases/tag/0.7.1).
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A weird idea for using RV32E on a RV32I core - multithreaded microcontrollers?
I see your point. You can file a request for it at https://github.com/riscv/riscv-v-spec/issues if you want to pitch it to the relevant ISA bodies. The bar for implementing it pretty high.
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Examining the Top Five Fallacies About RISC-V
It's not "unusual"; using data registers for mask is a valid tradeoff especially for low-end implementations, whereas higher-end architectures can easily use shadow registers. Discussed in depth at https://github.com/riscv/riscv-v-spec/issues/811
What are some alternatives?
interface-types
riscv-p-spec - RISC-V Packed SIMD Extension
spec - WebAssembly specification, reference interpreter, and test suite.
highway - Performance-portable, length-agnostic SIMD with runtime dispatch
gc - Branch of the spec repo scoped to discussion of GC integration in WebAssembly
highway - Highway - A Modern Javascript Transitions Manager
embly - Attempt at building an opinionated webassembly runtime for web services
riscv-bitmanip - Working draft of the proposed RISC-V Bitmanipulation extension
chat - A telnet chat server
vroom - VRoom! RISC-V CPU
component-model - Repository for design and specification of the Component Model
learn-fpga - Learning FPGA, yosys, nextpnr, and RISC-V