matrix-spec-proposals VS element-ios

Not only are they actually very closely linked, in that Element operates matrix.org, but to a new user (told to try Matrix -- what is this Element thing?) there's no difference.

I onboarded a family member onto my Matrix server with FluffyChat as the client. This person is a power user, fairly technical, yet still refers to the chat as "FluffyChat" and although I've explained several times that choosing FluffyChat was maybe a mistake and they should use Element, it never seems to really click that multiple clients are possible.

And really, they aren't possible. They have different subsets of features.

If you want to see a trash can fire, just try to follow the discussion for adding custom emoji to Matrix: https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-spec-proposals/pull/195...

it's been going on for years. It's a feature the competitors have had for half a decade, as long as this discussion has been ongoing. I've been watching this issue for half a decade thinking "surely they'll decide on something" but mostly all I've been convinced of is this: Matrix is design by committee in all of the worst aspects and at every level of design. If anything gets done at all, it's a convoluted mess, and it's a miracle that it even happens.

I wish community software developers would focus their attention.. somewhere else.

So Matrix also has account portability (almost) - https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-spec-proposals/blob/keg... and https://github.com/devonh/matrix-spec-proposals/blob/cryptoI..., implemented in Dendrite. Unfortunately dev is paused on it currently thanks to lack of $ though.

The AP approach (prioritising portable identities over portable account data) is cute though, and perhaps we should have prioritised that as an alternative to fullblown cryptographic IDs & account portability.

Luckily, it doesn't matter what individuals expect. There is written documentation on what the foundation is supposed to do or not to do: https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-spec-proposals/blob/mai...

Notably, "Code Core Team members must arrange their own funding for their time", which I understand as such that the Foundation does not pay directly the developers (same as other standards organizations like IETF).

Main tasks of Matrix.org Foundation is maintaining the spec, documentation, owning IP, promotion and the matrix.org home server. The home server is "generously hosted" by UpCloud (i.e. is not using New Vector EMS), at least according to the matrix.org website.

Looking again at MSC1779, I noticed it says that one function of The Matrix.org Foundation is "Owns the copyright of the reference implementations of Matrix (i.e. everything in https://github.com/matrix-org). By assigning copyright to the Foundation, it’s protected against New Vector ever being tempted to relicense it." That protection apparently wasn't very effective, but also notably, New Vector and their leadership clearly have shown to not stand behind the goals of the Foundation. As the leadership of New Vector is also part of the leadership of the Foundation, I see some huge potential for COI here.

The main remaining Nebuchadnezzar issue is mitigating server-controlled group membership. The first step has been to kill off the 1st gen E2EE implementations, which were responsible for the implementation vulns found by RHUL - and we should hopefully conclude that next week by moving everything into the matrix-rust-sdk crypto create implmentation: https://github.com/vector-im/element-web/issues/21972#issuec... is the tracker.

Then, we can address the harder server-controlled group membership issue in one place. First step will be to improve device verification & trust so that trust is the default, not the exception, to make it easier to spot and warn about unexpected devices in the room. The full solution is then either MSC3917 (https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-spec-proposals/blob/fay...) - or potentially to switch everything to MLS.

We're working on MLS anyway in parallel to RHUL mitigation work; you can see the progress at https://arewemlsyet.com, and it's looking good.

I'm guessing you're not interested in doing a podcast on "yay we converged our crypto implementations on a single robust Rust implementation so we can fix the remaining bugs in one place", but as soon as the server-controlled group membership thing is solved we'll be in touch. Work has also gone much slower than hoped on this, thanks to the joys of funding open source.

https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-spec-proposals/blob/keg... is how we’re doing it, and it’s being implemented currently in Dendrite.

Matrix already has key-based identity in the works at https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-spec-proposals/blob/keg... (and implemented in Dendrite at https://github.com/matrix-org/dendrite/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3A...). Matrix is set up to let folks go wild and change fundamentals like this; basically every Matrix Spec Change (MSC) is a small fork, which then gets merged into the main spec if it can be proven to work well in the wild.

Gitter seems to have moved to being a Matrix instance (or maybe it always has? it didn't look like Matrix when I used it circa 2016), but matrix feels half-baked and is just a bunch of hacks put together. For example

- Can't "mark all as read" on a space. probably because rooms within a space are only tangentially related,

- No custom emojis or sticker packs (their proposal for this is to create rooms to house custom emojis/sticker packs[0])

Not a great bet to go to keybase with the Zoom acquisition https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28814210

0: https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-spec-proposals/pull/195...

We’re currently working on account portability (https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-spec-proposals/pull/401...) and experimenting with glueing bluesky style DIDs onto it (so as to provide DMs for bluesky via Matrix, should they want them)

slow moving but there is discussions https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-spec-proposals/pull/1998

There are quite a few issues that they've stopped fixing in the Element app in favor of doing it in Element X, the one I've been following is where the iOS app causes a breakage in E2EE when you use the share extension, so they just disabled the share extension entirely and said they'd fix in X - https://github.com/vector-im/element-ios/issues/7618

But X requires Sliding Sync on the server, which is still a separate service to run alongside the homeserver and doesn't have a stable API, much less a spec (?). I am increasingly disappointed with how centralized Matrix is becoming, since AFAIK there isn't really an alternate client close to the same level of quality as Element.

I probably would've made all of the same decisions myself though, so I don't blame them I'm just a bit disappointed in how it's shaking out.

Element X is an entirely new client written in Rust + Swift UI/Jetpack Compose (https://github.com/vector-im/element-x-ios and https://github.com/vector-im/element-x-android) which will eventually replace the legacy Element apps (https://github.com/vector-im/element-ios and https://github.com/vector-im/element-android).

The features already exist serverside; we're just working on getting them out of beta.

You're being downvoted, but I originally had the same question.

It's actually a native app. It's mostly Objective C, but increasingly written in Swift. https://github.com/vector-im/element-ios

There is clearly room for improvement, but apparently they just hired a handful of new iOS developers to work on it. Good things should be coming soon.

afaik, there is no "official" way to do it: https://github.com/vector-im/element-ios/issues/590

Sure. Element for Android, iOS, and web

Every issue I had with Signal, and listed here, is solved.

One issue I have with the Element iOS client is that it doesn't respect system font sizing. So, for older relatives, that app can't be used. I put my mom on something called "Fluffy Chat" though, which does respect font sizes. If Element fixes that, I'll move her back again. It's kinda nice having multiple clients to choose from, though Element is by far the most polished.

https://github.com/vector-im/element-ios/issues/3245

That lets me assume that they either have a restyled fork of Element, or are directly telling us to use Element.

Here’s the iOS pull request for example: https://github.com/vector-im/element-ios/pull/3890

There's a GitHub issue mentioning the same domain, but it doesn't suggest it's used for verification

4. While core functionality is both broken and undocumented, the maintainers announce rabbit hole features that no one asked for and seem very much like distractions, like their recently-announced microblogging view/client[4]

In short the Element maintainers have shown little interest in making the platform accessible to the people who need its differentiating features the most, and have prioritized the "mad science"/technical aspect of their platform at the expense of the human element (end-users and operators).

It'd be cool if Element used their resources to hire some UX folks and community advocates whose sole focus is addressing the horrid accessibility of their platform. I think most users would rather see that than further "mad science".

[1] https://github.com/vector-im/element-ios/issues/3762