janet-sh VS CIEL

Right now, the one that is most attractive is Janet, with its wonderful shell programming integration and built-in http request. Those are both things I'm working a lot with.

I use Janet most often as a glue for shell utilities using the sh package (https://github.com/andrewchambers/janet-sh). It's a great tool for building small containerized jobs. I think it has a ton of potential as the ecosystem grows and matures.

Some rough spots:

- No canonical http client. There are a few attempts at wrapping libcurl but nothing complete and well documented yet. However, the creator of Joy framework for Janet does have an http client library.

- The main http server circlet is MIT licensed, but it is built on top of Mongoose, which is GPL/paid commercial. Something to be aware of if you want to distribute binaries made with this library.

- I have never been successful getting any of the UI or drawing libraries to work.

- Naming of packages is a bit confusing even if you have watched the Good Place and are aware of all of the inside jokes.

The arguments I have seen are based on Janet using arrays/tuples rather than cons cells. Here is the author addressing this on reddit a while back. https://old.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/aqwedz/janet_i...

The debate continues in the thread. Either way, I think Janet is very useful for situations where you want something lisp like and also want/need small executables. I've experimented with it quite a bit and have found it really useful for putting together cli apps. The sh package is really useful for gluing together other shell programs. https://github.com/andrewchambers/janet-sh

and for CL: https://github.com/ciel-lang/CIEL/ (pre-alpha) CL with many batteries included (json, csv, http, CLI parser…) so the scripts start fast.

As a CL addict, this isn't unlike Babashka: fast-starting CL scripting with batteries included. https://github.com/ciel-lang/CIEL (alpha) (otherwise the solution is to build a binary)

> lots of interoperability libraries

That's true. For cases when you want to start with a good set of libraries (json, csv, databases, HTTP client, CLI args, language extensions…), I am putting up this collection together: https://github.com/ciel-lang/CIEL/ It can be used as a normal Quicklisp library, or as a core image (it then starts up instantly) or as a binary.

It can run scripts nearly instantly too (so it isn't unlike Babashka). We are ironing out the details, not at v1.0 yet.

> handling a runtime error by just fixing the broken code--in-place, without any restarts [from the blog]

Also (second shameless plug) I should have illustrated this here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBBS4FeY7XM

We run a long and intensive computation and, bad luck, we get an error in the last step. Instead of re-running everything again from zero, we get the interactive debugger, we go to the erroneous line, we compile the fixed function, we come back to the debugger, we choose a point on the stackframe to resume execution from (the last step), and we see our program pass. Hope this illustrates the feature well!

check out CIEL, one of it's goal is to be a quality terminal repl

I've been doing the protohackers challenges in common lisp to learn, and I ran into a problem that is possibly a bug in the socket library, or much more likely in my misunderstanding it. At any rate the best workaround a found seems pretty ugly, so can anyone advice what would be the cleanest way to solve it, and how we're supposed to deal with sockets? The problem is basically make a tcp server, that forwards all connections to an upstream server, and does a regex find and replace on all the traffic that passes through. Here's my working solution. I haven't learned much how asdf and packages work yet, I am just using CIEL which is SBCL (2.2.9.debian) with a bunch of libraries already loaded, I think if you load usocket, usocket-server, cl-ppcre, and bordeaux-threads it should run. The program is simple, I just forward all traffic from the client to the upstream doing regex replacement on each line, and spawn a thread that handles forwarding all traffic from the upstream to the client with the regex replacement. The issue is that when the client disconnects, my program doesn't disconnect from the upstream, even when I call (close upstream) and (socket-close socket). Before closing the socket or stream, the connection shows as established in ss -tp and as belonging to the sbcl process. After calling close on the socket and stream, the connection still shows as established, just it no longer shows as belonging to the sbcl process, and tcpdump shows that the 4-way termination handshake is not sent. After killing the background thread that is also reading the same socket, the 4-way termination is sent, and the connection is closed. It seems like calling close on the stream or socket should close it? Are sockets or streams not safe to share between threads? Is there a cleaner way to handle closing the upstream connection when the client disconnects rather than calling destroy thread?

I quite agree, so I'm making a meta-library to have useful libraries available out of the box: https://github.com/ciel-lang/CIEL/ It's CL, batteries included. You can use it as a library, as a core CL image (loads up faster), and as a binary to have a REPL, and to run scripts:

    ciel --script myscript.lisp

No, we have to build a binary, which starts up super quickly.

I began to put together a "distribution" of useful CL libraries for everyday tasks: https://github.com/ciel-lang/CIEL/ It comes as:

- a lisp core, which you can use in your editor setup instead of sbcl or ccl, the advantage is that it loads instantly with all these libraries built-in (instead of quickloading all of them when needed)

Hi there. I'd enjoy help on anything web development for openbookstore: https://github.com/OpenBookStore/openbookstore (especially now: setting up i18n) Or, we could work on the terminal REPL experience for the CIEL meta-package: https://github.com/ciel-lang/CIEL/ We could use a better base like cl-repl or better yet, Lish.