imessage VS Docker-OSX

The nothing website claims:

> Nothing Chats is built on Sunbird's platform and all Chats messages are end-to-end encrypted, meaning neither we nor Sunbird can access the messages you're sending and receiving.

> Nothing is powered by Sunbird, and Sunbird's architecture provides a system to deliver a message from one user to another without ever storing it at any point in its journey. Messages are not stored on Sunbird's servers and are only live on your device – once a message is delivered, it can only be recovered locally from your personal device.

From: https://us.nothing.tech/pages/nothing-chats

The Verge claims:

> Marques Brownlee has also had a preview of Nothing Chats. He confirmed with Nothing that, similar to how other iMessage-to-Android bridge services have worked before, “...it’s literally signing in on some Mac Mini in a server farm somewhere, and that Mac Mini will then do all of the routing for you to make this happen.”

From: https://www.theverge.com/2023/11/14/23960516/nothing-chats-i...

It seems to me like if they are doing the typical thing of using a bridge like https://github.com/mautrix/imessage then that isn't really E2EE, the messages are being stored, and could be accessed by Sunbird. I don't really see how their claims could be true. Does anyone know? Am I missing something?

If you're willing to dive deep into self-hosting, the open source chat protocol Matrix.org has support for an in-development iMessage bridge. Once you get it to work, there's a Matrix.org client on KaiOS devices called Chooj (sideloading guide) made by Farooq that you can use to access the chat.

iMessage bridge

The disadvantage of not offering an API for iMessage is that there is no easy way to block clients. Apps like Bluebubbles have to work by being installed on an actual Mac and scraping messages from iMessage and Beeper uses a similar architecture[0]. Presumably they have a data centre full of actual macs (or VMs).

[0] https://github.com/mautrix/imessage

I have an old Mac Mini rotting on a shelf in my cupboard which is my bridge to the world of Apple shit. It primarily runs two bits of software: OpenHaystack, which I used to run my own object trackers over the Apple Find My network and Mautrix iMessage which I used to access iMessage via Matrix on my Android and Windows devices.

I've switched from iPhone to a de-googled Android device, and am generally trying to extract myself from google and apple ecosystem lock-in. The last piece for me is trying to find a reasonable bridge for iMessages - but the baseline requirement is to have a Mac PC running 24x7 to act as a bridge for matrix or airmessage. Here's my question: the hardware and software requirements for iMessages are pretty minimal. MacOS Big Sur implemented a few messaging bits like inline replies which I'd like to keep, so that's my OS baseline. Has anyone managed to strip down a hackintosh hardware installation to absolutely minimal proxmox hardware demands (e.g. ram/cores)? If so, got a recommendation on an efficient build process?

I know how crazy it is in America, but I think at leat the HN crowd wouldn't be participating in that madness.

If you are disparate enough, you can use a matrix bridge to get blue bubbles from anywhere

https://github.com/mautrix/imessage

Yes, tulir works for beeper. But I think they stopped doing that iPhone thing, and if you use iOS there are less features available: https://github.com/mautrix/imessage/blob/master/ROADMAP.md

I have an Android phone and if you're desperate you can buy an old Mac Mini and set up an iMessage bridge over Matrix (https://github.com/mautrix/imessage) or BlueBubbles to work around this. I do not recommend it though as it locks you into a facet of the Apple ecosystem.

Running macOS legally requires real mac servers and a bespoke storage solution: https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/en/analysis/not-just-stac...

A self-hosted macOS runner will be more economical in the long-run, if you have a spot you can hook it up at, or if you're fine doing things less than legally, you can use https://github.com/sickcodes/Docker-OSX.

Repositório Docker-OSX - Guidelines, troubleshooting, comandos

> What's the licensing situation on this?

1. This project didn't take explicit permission from Apple to redistribute binaries

2. There are multiple jurisdictions where you don't need to explicitly have such permission, it is implied by law

3. Usage of this software implies you already have macOS system. I'm not a lawyer, but it looks to be covered by section 3 of macOS EULA.

4. There are existing precedents of redistribution of macOS binaries for multiple years aready:

- https://github.com/cirruslabs/macos-image-templates/pkgs/con...

- https://hub.docker.com/r/sickcodes/docker-osx

- https://app.vagrantup.com/jhcook/boxes/macos-sierra

And so on.

Google is “friendlier”, because they run some automated scans on the apk and you’re good. Apple has humans run your app to confirm it does what you claim, as well as a battery of automated scans and since they are using the app I’d imagine they look at network traffic as much as possible. I know iOS isn’t shielded from malicious apps, but there’s malware and viruses all over the play store. That’s because it’s free and “friendlier”.

> At Apple things have gotten way worse. Trying to automate release building is practically impossible and will require hours or CI pipeline debugging with error messages that don't mean what they say.

This isn’t Apple’s fault… every build system sucks up a decent amount of time during initial setup. You can cut down massive amounts of time between iterations by adding some common optimizations:

1. Cache artifacts when that step or job succeeds, so if a subsequent step/job fails, you can adjust it and start up where you left off, using the caches artifact to restore the workspace state. This complicates debugging efforts and I personally don’t do any optimization until the pipeline is reliably green each time. I just deal with slow builds and switch to other stuff or work ahead while they run.

2. Fail fast. The CI run should bail out if any critical steps don’t pass, so anything further down doesn’t run for no reason, burning compute time and delaying queued jobs waiting for a runner. While developing the pipeline, watch the logs and when you see something you don’t like, slap the cancel button, or collect a couple things you need to change and iterate with passes with 2-3 changes.

3. Use adequately spec’s hardware. Xcode is resource heavy and compiles need plenty of memory and cpu cores. Play around with what is a good compromise between power and cost. See if your project builds faster with more cpu cores, or faster cpu cores, etc.

> At least Googles process is quite simple and can be dockerized.

One man’s simple is another man’s “practically impossible”. Simple comes from familiarity and confidence. Anyway, you can totally run your builds in docker if you want to, and many do, but I’d personally not introduce more complexity until you have your pipelines running the slow way with the least amount of mental modeling to do. Once you know it all works, then have a go at running the build you know is good, inside a docker container (which in this case is just packing up kvm/qemu/libvirt to facilitate the running of a vm back on the host, but it means you can run mac containers on Linux runners, which will be much cheaper than Mac runners since those are usually Mac hardware)

https://github.com/sickcodes/Docker-OSX

> Also why do I have to pay Apple $125 a year when it costs $100 in the US? The exchange rate from CHF to USD should be in my favor.

Couple theories. 1. They have additional processing or tax expenses when dealing with your currency which they aren’t going to eat the cost of. 2. The higher price could be to deter abuse if for some reason there is an abnormal amount originating from accounts who pay with that currency.

You can use qemu/libvirt/kvm on any Linux host to run macOS pretty easily these days[1]. I run Ventura on unraid with nvidea gpu passthrough and it’s been fairly painless.

You can also run macOS in docker, but it’s ultimately running through qemu/kvm as well[2]

1. https://github.com/kholia/OSX-KVM

2. https://github.com/sickcodes/Docker-OSX

It would be a better idea to setup bluebubbles if you really want imessages while you wait, if you have an old laptop that you can use as a macos server. https://github.com/sickcodes/Docker-OSX is a brilliant solution for macos vm as a docker container. mac hardware not required