genode VS illumos-gate

seL4 foundation members[0] are using it.

There's Genode[1], which supports it among other kernels, offering a fancy desktop environment.

However, efforts like this driver framework do help. There's also Makatea[2], an effort to implement a stronger Qubes-like system based on seL4.

0. https://sel4.systems/Foundation/Membership/

1. https://genode.org/

2. https://trustworthy.systems/projects/makatea/

> While this is true from a certain perspective, machine code creates a system which must grand access to many things to become usable. A shared file system is a good example of this. Some software could easily echo a line into you .profile that tries to launch a key-logger, and this works in many cases.

That's common, but it's certainly not a requirement to run native code. For example, we've done a pretty good job at retroactively fixing that while preserving backwards compatibility with containers (I can, and have run normal official Firefox binaries inside a docker container with zero access to my real home directory) or sandboxes like flatpak (bubblewrap). If you want to run real native binaries but don't have to preserve backwards compatibility, then it gets easy; genode ( https://genode.org/ ) does a lovely job of truly practicing only giving programs what access you want to give them.

> The expectation of software existing as opaque files creates a huge amount of work for the OS in verifying the exact behaviour of the software as it runs (and in ways which can often be circumvented), rather than a source-based approach in which malware is never allowed to touch the processor.

I think you're overoptimistic regarding what you can do with the source code short of manual (human) auditing. I mean, sure there are things you can scan for to try and catch bad behavior, but in the case of actual malice I wouldn't trust automatic code analysis to protect me.

>> I'm typing this on a nice comfy GNU/Linux box where the only blobs are some firmware

> So you suffer the worst of both worlds then. You've had to download and compile the source yourself, but as the software is designed around being distributed as blobs, so you enjoy none of the benefits that might come from source distribution.

I have no idea why you think either of those things? Depending on the distro I certainly can compile from source on my own box (ex. Gentoo, NixOS), but I can also use precompiled binaries (ex. Debian, NixOS) while still having it be trivial to go find the exact source that went in to the binary package I downloaded (this has gotten even stronger with Reproducibility efforts meaning that I can even verify the exact source and build config that created a specific binary). The actual application software and OS are available as Open Source code that can be audited, with binaries available as a convenience, and the only remaining blobs (unwelcome but impractical to fix so far) are firmware blobs with relatively constrained roles (and on machines with an IOMMU we can even enforce what access they have, which is a nice mitigation).

Genode[1] is slowly approaching the point at which I can use it as a daily driver. I hope it makes it before Windows 10 goes away. It will be nice to never have to work about viruses, or spyware, etc., any more. It'll be like a trip back to the free spirited days of DOS and write protected floppy boot disks.

[1] https://genode.org/

I'd dig into genode[1], which is a capability based operating system. You'll likely see an upsurge in interest in capability based systems in the next decade.

[1] https://genode.org/

Yet another exploit that just wouldn't work on a well-designed system, such as Genode[0].

0. https://genode.org/

Have you looked at Genode? I don't think it's usable day-to-day yet but the concepts seem interesting.

Maybe you should go into details a bit more what you are planning and why. There are (and have been) several approaches here. The most prominent might be Genode (https://www.reddit.com/r/genode, https://genode.org) and joining forces there might be a better approach than starting another project that will get lost in the details and complexity eventually.

It may become a footnote on Linux, but Linux isn't the only system out there -- and DTrace remains alive and well in many systems (not least in its reference implementation in illumos[0]).

[0] https://github.com/illumos/illumos-gate

Nobody's paid to have it pass Open Group Unix Branding certification tests

https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/

so it can't use the UNIX™ trade mark.

But it's got the AT&T Unix kernel & userland sources contained in it.

PDP-11 Unix System III: https://www.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=SysIII/usr/src/ut...

IllumOS: https://github.com/illumos/illumos-gate/blob/b8169dedfa435c0...

> it seems like this bug might actually date back to the very beginning of ZFS with Sun

Looks like you might be right about that. The oldest commit referenced in the fix [0] was from 2006[1], which was just months after Sun released ZFS.

[0] https://github.com/openzfs/zfs/pull/15571

[1] https://github.com/illumos/illumos-gate/commit/c543ec060d

It could be good for in memory stores / log-structured merged trees / other data store applications although it isn't used much now-days. I find them simpler to implement and understand than red-black trees -- although that's a matter of taste I suppose. They beat red-black trees in read-heavy loads (i.e. writes / updates are more costly for AVL trees than for Red-Black trees although they beat R-B trees for read-heavy loads). You can find another implementation in Illumos (an open source Unix operating system) available here: https://github.com/illumos/illumos-gate/blob/master/usr/src/...

It's high time that the Illumos developers patched https://github.com/illumos/illumos-gate/blob/master/usr/src/... and https://github.com/illumos/illumos-gate/blob/master/usr/src/... to just set the error flag and return, and made the #ifndef TIOCSTI path in https://github.com/illumos/illumos-gate/blob/master/usr/src/... the only path.

Because by the looks of https://github.com/illumos/illumos-gate/blob/7c478bd95313f5f... the C shell was fixed years ago.

People are still actively working on Illumos. The last change was yesterday morning.

* https://illumos.org

People are still actively working on MirBSD. There's a CVS commit account that can be followed on the FediVerse.

* http://www.mirbsd.org

It's DragonFly BSD, not Dragon BSD, and the irony of that is that you missed FreeBSD, which is of course still going.

* https://dragonflybsd.org

* https://freebsd.org

As is GhostBSD, which tracks FreeBSD.

* https://ghostbsd.org

HardenedBSD is still going. Shawn Webb regularly talks about it on the FediVerse.

* https://hardenedbsd.org

Its successor is still out there: Illumos. Though it seems to be mainly focused on backwards compatibility for existing custom applications as it still enforces things like an 8 character username limit.

> Since then, illumos has rewritten all those components

But apparently kept the same license?

>> Most of the existing code is licensed under the CDDL and we expect new code will generally be under this license as well.[0]

[0] https://github.com/illumos/illumos-gate