nx VS jax

Does nx not work for you? https://github.com/elixir-nx/nx/tree/main/nx#readme

It is historically not great at number computing. This is being addressed by a relatively new project called Nx. https://github.com/elixir-nx/nx

It is not the right choice for CPU intensive tasks like graphics, HFT, etc. Some companies have used Rust to write native extensions for those kinds of problems. https://discord.com/blog/using-rust-to-scale-elixir-for-11-m...

José from the Livebook team. I don't think I can make a pitch because I have limited Python/R experience to use as reference.

My suggestion is for you to give it a try for a day or two and see what you think. I am pretty sure you will find weak spots and I would be very happy to hear any feedback you may have. You can find my email on my GitHub profile (same username).

In general we have grown a lot since the Numerical Elixir effort started two years ago. Here are the main building blocks:

* Nx (https://github.com/elixir-nx/nx/tree/main/nx#readme): equivalent to Numpy, deeply inspired by JAX. Runs on both CPU and GPU via Google XLA (also used by JAX/Tensorflow) and supports tensor serving out of the box

* Axon (https://github.com/elixir-nx/axon): Nx-powered neural networks

* Bumblebee (https://github.com/elixir-nx/bumblebee): Equivalent to HuggingFace Transformers. We have implemented several models and that's what powers the Machine Learning integration in Livebook (see the announcement for more info: https://news.livebook.dev/announcing-bumblebee-gpt2-stable-d...)

* Explorer (https://github.com/elixir-nx/explorer): Series and DataFrames, as per this thread.

* Scholar (https://github.com/elixir-nx/scholar): Nx-based traditional Machine Learning. This one is the most recent effort of them all. We are treading the same path as scikit-learn but quite early on. However, because we are built on Nx, everything is derivable, GPU-ready, distributable, etc.

Regarding visualization, we have "smart cells" for VegaLite and MapLibre, similar to how we did "Data Transformations" in the video above. They help you get started with your visualizations and you can jump deep into the code if necessary.

I hope this helps!

> I guess, why not use Rust entirely instead of as a FFI into Elixir or other backend language?

Because Rust brings none of the benefits of the BEAM ecosystem to the table.

I was an early Elixir adopter, not working currently as an Elixir developer, but I have deployed one of the largest Elixir applications for a private company in my country.

I know it has limits, but the language itself is only a small part of the whole.

Take ML, Jose Valim and Sean Moriarity have studied the problem, made a plan to tackle it and started solving it piece by piece [1] in a tightly integrated manner, it feels natural, as if Elixir always had those capabilities in a way that no other language does and to put the icing on the cake the community released Livebook [2] to interactively explore code and use the new tools in the simplest way possible, something that Python notebooks only dream of being capable of, after a decade of progress

That's not to say that Elixir is superior as a language, but that the ecosystem is flourishing and the community is able to extract the 100% of the benefits from the tools and create new marvellously crafted ones, that push the limits forward every time, in such a simple manner, that it looks like magic.

And going back to Rust, you can write Rust if you need speed or for whatever reason you feel it's the right tool for the job, it's totally integrated [3][4], again in a way that many other languages can only dream of, and it's in fact the reason I've learned Rust in the first place.

The opposite is not true, if you write Rust, you write Rust, and that's it. You can't take advantage of the many features the BEAM offers, OTP, hot code reloading, full inspection of running systems, distribution, scalability, fault tolerance, soft real time etc. etc. etc.

But of course if you don't see any advantage in them, it means you probably don't need them (one other option is that you still don't know you want them :] ). In that case Rust is as good as any other language, but for a backend, even though I gently despise it, Java (or Kotlin) might be a better option.

[1] https://github.com/elixir-nx/nx https://github.com/elixir-nx/axon

[2] https://livebook.dev/

[3] https://github.com/rusterlium/rustler

[4] https://dashbit.co/blog/rustler-precompiled

(including docs and tests!): https://github.com/elixir-nx/nx/pull/1090

I'll be glad to answer questions about Nx or anything from Livebook's launch week!

I think that experiment is taking shape with Elixir:

https://github.com/elixir-nx/nx

However the issue here at Nx https://github.com/elixir-nx/nx/issues/490 is already closed.

Outside of that, Elixir can be used for data pipelines, audio-video processing, and it is making inroads on Machine Learning with projects like Livebook, Nx, and Bumblebee.

The dual numbers exist just as surely as the real numbers and have been used well over 100 years

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_number

Pytorch has had them for many years.

https://pytorch.org/docs/stable/generated/torch.autograd.for...

JAX implements them and uses them exactly as stated in this thread.

https://github.com/google/jax/discussions/10157#discussionco...

As you so eloquently stated, "you shouldn't be proclaiming things you don't actually know on a public forum," and doubly so when your claimed "corrections" are so demonstrably and totally incorrect.

On your last point, as long as you jit the topmost level, it doesn't matter whether or not you have inner jitted functions. The end result should be the same.

Source: https://github.com/google/jax/discussions/5199#discussioncom...

The design of MLX is inspired by frameworks like NumPy, PyTorch, Jax, and ArrayFire.

I'm still not totally sure what the issue is. Jax uses program transformations to compile programs to run on a variety of hardware, for example, using XLA for TPUs. It can also run cuda ops for Nvidia gpus without issue: https://jax.readthedocs.io/en/latest/installation.html

There is also support for custom cpp and cuda ops if that's what is needed: https://jax.readthedocs.io/en/latest/Custom_Operation_for_GP...

I haven't worked with float4, but can imagine that new numerical types would require some special handling. But I assume that's the case for any ml environment.

But really you probably mean fixed point 4bit integer types? Looks like that has had at least some work done in Jax: https://github.com/google/jax/issues/8566

>

Are they even comparing apples to apples to claim that they see these improvements over NumPy?

> While the code complexity and length are roughly the same, the MatX version shows a 2100x over the Numpy version, and over 4x faster than the CuPy version on the same GPU.

NumPy doesn't use GPU by default unless you use something like Jax [1] to compile NumPy code to run on GPUs. I think more honest comparison will mainly compare MatX running on same CPU like NumPy as focus the GPU comparison against CuPy.

[1] https://github.com/google/jax

Actually that never changed. The README has always had an example of differentiating through native Python control flow:

https://github.com/google/jax/commit/948a8db0adf233f333f3e5f...

The constraints on control flow expressions come from jax.jit (because Python control flow can't be staged out) and jax.vmap (because we can't take multiple branches of Python control flow, which we might need to do for different batch elements). But autodiff of Python-native control flow works fine!

For a similar "benchmark" (also Mandelbrot) but took place in Jax repo discussion: https://github.com/google/jax/discussions/11078#discussionco...

2. https://github.com/fantasyland/fantasy-land (A bit heavy on jargon)

Note there is a python version of Ramda available on pypi and there’s a lot of FP tidbits inside JAX:

3. https://pypi.org/project/ramda/ (Worth making your own version if you want to learn, though)

4. For nested data, JAX tree_util is epic: https://jax.readthedocs.io/en/latest/jax.tree_util.html and also their curry implementation is funny: https://github.com/google/jax/blob/4ac2bdc2b1d71ec0010412a32...

Anyway don’t put FP on a pedestal, main thing is to focus on the core principles of avoiding external mutation and making helper functions. Doesn’t always work because some languages like Rust don’t have legit support for currying (afaik in 2023 August), but in those cases you can hack it with builder methods to an extent.

Finally, if you want to understand the middle of the midwit meme, check out this wiki article and connect the free monoid to the Kleene star (0 or more copies of your pattern) and Kleene plus (1 or more copies of your pattern). Those are also in regex so it can help you remember the regex symbols. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_monoid?wprov=sfti1

The simplest example might be {0}^* in which case

0: “” // because we use *

Hello! I'm trying to learn JAX over the next couple of weeks. Ideally, I want to be comfortable with using it for projects after about 3 weeks to a month, although I understand that may not be realistic. I currently have experience with PyTorch and TensorFlow. How should I go about learning JAX? Is there a specific YouTube tutorial or online course I should use, or should I just use the tutorial on https://jax.readthedocs.io/? Any information, advice, or experience you can share would be much appreciated!