coturn VS hydrogen-web

Both TURN and STUN can be self hosted, the most popular project i have found is coturn

# TURN server name and realm realm=DOMAIN server-name=turnserver # Use fingerprint in TURN message fingerprint # IPs the TURN server listens to listening-ip=0.0.0.0 # External IP-Address of the TURN server external-ip=IP_ADDRESS # Main listening port listening-port=3478 # Further ports that are open for communication min-port=10000 max-port=20000 # Log file path log-file=/var/log/turnserver.log # Enable verbose logging verbose # Specify the user for the TURN authentification user=turnuser:turn456 # Enable long-term credential mechanism lt-cred-mech # If running coturn version older than 4.5.2, uncomment these rules and ensure # that you have listening-ip set to ipv4 addresses only. # Prevent Loopback bypass https://github.com/coturn/coturn/security/advisories/GHSA-6g6j-r9rf-cm7p #denied-peer-ip=0.0.0.0-0.255.255.255 #denied-peer-ip=127.0.0.0-127.255.255.255 #denied-peer-ip=::1

I am trying to deploy coturn server in the Kubernetes cluster.

That is an excellent use case for a webrtc server rather than an usual voice communication. If you decide to go that way, you don't need any sim card. You just need an internet access. You install a webrtc client (the usual one is coturn). I don't know if you also need to set up some kind of chat server in addition.

I've found this issue for you: https://github.com/coturn/coturn/issues/492

If you host yourself on a VPS you can hook in coturn (it's enabled by the linked playbook by default):

https://github.com/spantaleev/matrix-docker-ansible-deploy/b...

https://github.com/coturn/coturn

You're welcome! If this is for mission-critical or commercial use, you will want to invest in a good TURN server to ensure a reliable connection between peers. You can either self-host your own Coturn server or pay for a service like Twilio. But if this is just a hobby project, you can just use the free Open Relay Project.

schema.sql - coturn - GitHub

I tried http://turnserver.open-sys.org/ and cloning the GitHub repository, but I got the same results.

NetBird and Netmaker are similar in their capabilities and mesh offering, the same goes for Tailscale, but if we compare technical implementations, Netbird relies on the ICE and STUN protocols to discover the best path for p2p connectivity between peers. These are open WebRTC protocols with battle-tested software around them. Similarly, we use TURN for securely relaying traffic, when a p2p connection isn't possible (hard NAT). This protocol also comes from the WebRTC world and has stable and popular implementations like Coturn.

Yes! See https://github.com/vector-im/hydrogen-web/releases/tag/v0.3....

I think you're right, the experience of element on Android isn't great, I use mostly the web app that seems to get more attention and doesn't feel as sluggish. But to bring some hope, I think this will change soon-ish. The Matrix ecosystem has been in kind of a MVP state for several years, the focus was more on the protocol/APIs and not so much on the performance that translates in user experience. But efforts are on the way to improve all of this, on the client side there are several projects working on other clients that might be more performant, including the company behind Element, they have a work-in-progress lightweight client https://github.com/vector-im/hydrogen-web On the server side most servers run Synapse which is written in Python without much though for performance or scalability but there are faster/lighter alternatives on the way like Dendrite or Conduit. It also doesn't help that most accounts are in the same overcrowded Synapse server(matrix.org), overtime it should become more common to have more alternatives and people even running their home server embedded in their device.

It’s using normal Matrix olm/megolm double ratchet encryption.

To track the identity of who you’re talking to we can do TOFU and/or normal out of band Matrix verification as per https://github.com/vector-im/hydrogen-web/issues/518 - but this isn’t yet exposed in Chatterbox. We’ll get it added, as without verification you obviously can’t spot a MITM.

You can use this web app to access the chat. Join the #general channel. https://github.com/vector-im/hydrogen-web

Hydrogen's installation process was pretty much exactly the same as Element, the github README was just a lot less specific and there is no config file so you have to edit the HTML directly to get it to point to your site instead of matrix.org by default.

> I'm rather convinced at this point that all of these people chanting "Can we just go back to traditional approaches!" have never built a web app of reasonable complexity, never used something like React, or have some sort of combination of FOMO and/or comfort in their long-held approach.

I've got plenty of React & front-end experience and vastly prefer a thin library on top of the DOM than something like React, also for large applications. React is ok if all goes well, but when you have to debug or profile something, all the complexity behind the scenes occludes what you are looking for. Most of the time, people want JSX so you need a transpiler. Also keeping up with changes in new React releases seems like a lot of lost time.

I've been building [1] without a transpiler and just a 600 lines template library (see [2]), and it has been such a breath of fresh air. The fact that there is so little code between you and the browser makes it very easy to see what is going on. Call stacks of max around 15 frames.

It sounds like you are comparing React to jquery code without components, and I justed wanted to highlight that DOM APIs have evolved since those days, and that you don't need a library like React to structure your code.

React has popularized good ideas in front-end development, like components, but I think the complexity cost of a virtual DOM is often underestimated.

1: https://github.com/vector-im/hydrogen-web/

Matrix's resource utilisation is improving very rapidly at the moment.

Dendrite is still in beta, and hasn't been tuned that much yet, but every release has had a substantial improvement. In other words, if you're not using today's release (0.3.5) you're on stale data. For context, dendrite.matrix.org (running 0.3.5) has ~5K users on it, and is in ~3K rooms spanning 162K users... and its RAM usage is stable at 488MB (occasionally spiking to 2GB during traffic spikes). This doesn't seem unreasonable at all for a chat server of that size. Meanwhile, Synapse has been steadily improving too.

On the client side, Hydrogen (https://hydrogen.element.io, https://github.com/vector-im/hydrogen-web) is our next-gen client implementation, which gives you full E2EE, complete with backup (I have no idea what Durov is banging on about in the OP) - and uses 14MB of RAM for an account in 3,000 rooms spanning 350K users (i.e. my personal one). This is an 100x improvement on Element Web which uses 1.4GB for the same account, although there's also a lot of optimisation that can be done there too.

If I was going to criticise Matrix, I'd focus more on the fact that there are still a lot of papercuts on Element's UX which are holding us back. We're painfully aware of this though and are trying to fix as rapidly as we can.

it’s a entirely new codebase; probably best way to visualise progress is to look at the contributor graphs at https://github.com/vector-im/hydrogen-web